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Author Topic: Happy B-Day country-X!!  (Read 4560 times)

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Anaxilus

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2015, 06:29:34 PM »

You already failed with your first interweb link which supported my argument. Do you have another failed attempt? Do you have a definition for ancestry that doesn't involve biology?? Please share.
_______

Jeff, maybe I can help you out as someone who grew up mutli cultural, multi racial and multi ethnic. First, don't listen to white people about defining these things, they have no experience with this stuff so they just randomly make shit up that makes no sense. You have to parse the actual living examples and not govt. supplied criteria. These are the same idiots that drew lines on a map in the ME. So forget that shit.

For example. My nationality is American. I was born in Thailand, but my parents are American so I was born as an American abroad, same as John McCain. Thailand was just the place my hospital was located in. I am not Thai however, as I never pursued the requisites to maintain that nationality (they require you demonstrate a speaking knowledge of Thai and make yourself available for their public service either as a soldier or monk). Racially, I'm Euro-Asian or EurAsian or half-yellow/half white or half white/half-asian depending on what BS metric you want to employ. My ethnicity is half Austrian and half Vietnamese as that's where my grand parents came from. The Austrian thing is tricky though. They came over from the Austro-Hungarian empire so that was their nationality, but their name, geography and lineage suggest they were from modern day Poland. So my grandfather's side culture is Austrian, but my ancestral lineage is more tied to the Slavic peoples rather than the Goths. In fact, my grandmother might have been considered Russian. The Vietnamese side is much more simple and straight forward. So ethnically I'm an Austrian Slav/Vietnamese. My cultural identity is Austrian-Vietnamese-American. All three.
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Anaxilus

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2015, 06:32:04 PM »

LOL, love the source!

Looks that the date on that haplogroup has been revised a bit more recently though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_A_%28Y-DNA%29#A00

Yeah, I gave a wide birth as I always presume we don't know as much as we think we know. I should just say 10,000 to 1 million...
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

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"You're like a dull knife, just ain't cuttin'. Talking loud, saying nothing." - James Brown

lm4der

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2015, 06:42:51 PM »

Seriously, it's not that hard.  Here's another:

"Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices.

Race and ethnicity can obviously overlap, but they are distinct. For example, a Japanese-American would probably consider herself a member of the Japanese or East Asian race, but, if she doesn't engage in any of the practices or customs of her ancestors, she might not identify with the ethnicity, but might instead consider herself to be American."

From:  http://www.livescience.com/33903-difference-race-ethnicity.html

Clearly you know better though.  At this point I have to let this go.
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OJneg

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2015, 06:43:08 PM »

Jeff: I suppose "ethnic Chinese" might be too broad a category to fit someone in. Chinese is obviously a nationality (as well as an ethnicity?) but I'm guessing there's a more specific ethnicity that you fit in beyond that.
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OJneg

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2015, 06:50:38 PM »

"Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices.

Race and ethnicity can obviously overlap, but they are distinct. For example, a Japanese-American would probably consider herself a member of the Japanese or East Asian race, but, if she doesn't engage in any of the practices or customs of her ancestors, she might not identify with the ethnicity, but might instead consider herself to be American."

That is what we would define to be "culturally" American. The biological component determines the race with ethnicity simply being a subset within that. Obviously there is a certain cultural learning that comes with her Japanese ethnicity. She might choose to not identify with her ethnic group but that does not make her ethnically American (is that a thing now?)
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Anaxilus

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #75 on: July 07, 2015, 06:52:51 PM »

Seriously, it's not that hard.  Here's another:

"Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices.

Race and ethnicity can obviously overlap, but they are distinct. For example, a Japanese-American would probably consider herself a member of the Japanese or East Asian race, but, if she doesn't engage in any of the practices or customs of her ancestors, she might not identify with the ethnicity, but might instead consider herself to be American."

From:  http://www.livescience.com/33903-difference-race-ethnicity.html

Clearly you know better though.  At this point I have to let this go.

LOL! Yes, I should say so. Ethnicity may or may not involve a biological component whenever you feel like it to suit your argument? Some or all? Which is it? Have your cake and eat it too much? Culture=ethnicity? No. One is a component of the other. This is why one white man in Greece developed logic to refute the vagueries and sophistry of other white men. A Japanese person who culturally identifies as being American is no longer ethnically Japanese per your interpretation. That's absurd.
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Anaxilus

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #76 on: July 07, 2015, 06:53:38 PM »

That is what we would define to be "culturally" American. The biological component determines the race with ethnicity simply being a subset within that. Obviously there is a certain cultural learning that comes with her Japanese ethnicity. She might choose to not identify with her ethnic group but that does not make her ethnically American (is that a thing now?)

Thank you! Leave it to a Persian to understand the Greeks.
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

"The Claw is our master. The Claw chooses who will go or who will stay." - The LGM Community

"You're like a dull knife, just ain't cuttin'. Talking loud, saying nothing." - James Brown

No_One411

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2015, 06:57:10 PM »

I guess it's not as convoluted as I thought. Mike and OJ's explanations do help a lot.

So I'd be Asian by race, ethnically Chinese, and culturally American.

My comment about "ethnic Chinese" was just how there are a lot of people in say Vietnam that are considered "ethnically Chinese" from ancestry, but are still culturally Vietnamese. In other words, biologically "Chinese", as per the ethnicity, but adopt Vietnamese cultures and traditions. That said I do agree that it is too large of a blanket term can just ends up being more confusing than it needs to be.

Hopefully got that cleared up now.
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Anaxilus

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2015, 06:58:47 PM »

Seriously, it's not that hard.  Here's another:

"Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices.

Race and ethnicity can obviously overlap, but they are distinct. For example, a Japanese-American would probably consider herself a member of the Japanese or East Asian race, but, if she doesn't engage in any of the practices or customs of her ancestors, she might not identify with the ethnicity, but might instead consider herself to be American."

From:  http://www.livescience.com/33903-difference-race-ethnicity.html

Clearly you know better though.  At this point I have to let this go.

Here's a link from someone who's not a DF.

http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-ethnicity-and-vs-culture/

As if posting links supersedes basic critical thinking.
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

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frenchbat

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Re: Happy B-Day country-X!!
« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2015, 07:10:53 PM »

A Japanese person who culturally identifies as being American is no longer ethnically Japanese per your interpretation. That's absurd.
Excellent example. Tell that to Japan-born japanese about japanese born abroad, you won't get the answer you want. I know that first hand.




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