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Author Topic: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)  (Read 3219 times)

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drfindley

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 09:39:14 AM »

I'm also pretty sure there isn't one budget belt drive TT within 20 square miles of Shaizada's house.

I can verify this. :)
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Chris F

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 02:48:56 PM »

I've used/heard a lot of 1200s in my DJ gigs.  Usually they have Shure M44-7 carts but some have Orfoton Concorde DJ.  The M44-7 and Ortofon Concorde carts are quite forgiving in terms of setup.  You have to really fuck it up badly before they start seriously misbehaving.

I would characterize the sound of these tables/cart combos as bloomy and slightly uncontrolled in the bass with average/mediocre mids and a slightly dull top end.  Pleasing to listen to (nothing going wrong in the sound signature) but if your primary concern is sound quality it's easy to do better for the same money in the used hifi market.

BTW I have a Simaudio 110LP phono stage sitting on my shelf unused for about a year.  If you guys want to use it for your next round of shootouts hit me with a PM.  I'm curious what other people will think of it.  I think it's pretty good for entry level; the wall wart PSU seems to be the limiting factor.  You might be able to use the AMB Sigma 11 with it for a big improvement....
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DaveBSC

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2015, 03:57:39 PM »

"With the PLX-1000's platter removed, I could see that its motor mounts and interior construction were completely different from (but possibly sturdier and more serviceable than) those of the venerable Technics machine. Musically and mechanically, the new PLX-1000 seems more heavy-duty and sure-footed than the vintage, near-mint SL-1200MK2 I borrowed for comparisons."

Their review sample also arrived with loose tonearm bearings, good thing Turntable guru Mike Trei was in the house to fix it. I'm sure everyone has their own turntable guru right? Or does Pioneer send one out to you when you buy one? Platter wobble is also a problem from what I've read.

Aside from that, the Stanton, Reloop, A-T, and various other DJ-5500 rebadges including the PLX-1000 are "fine," and probably a match for whatever the equivalent Rega or Pro-Ject is, but that's as far as I'd go. The fact that a VPI Traveler couldn't beat it says more about the Traveler than it does about the Pioneer. I've never been impressed by VPI's budget tables.

For the record, I've got nothing at all against direct drive, or Pioneer for that matter. As I said, a heavily modded SL-1200 can actually be a formidable table, I'm just not sure it's worth the money it costs to get it there. I've also heard proper Pioneer tables, like the PL-707, which are quite good, as are many of the higher end JVC, Yamaha, and Kenwood DDs from the late '70s and early '80s. Tables like the Exclusive P3 and Kenwood L-07D could probably send more than a few $5K belt drives home.

 
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JK47

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 04:17:38 PM »

Their review sample also arrived with loose tonearm bearings, good thing Turntable guru Mike Trei was in the house to fix it. I'm sure everyone has their own turntable guru right? Or does Pioneer send one out to you when you buy one? Platter wobble is also a problem from what I've read.

Aside from that, the Stanton, Reloop, A-T, and various other DJ-5500 rebadges including the PLX-1000 are "fine," and probably a match for whatever the equivalent Rega or Pro-Ject is, but that's as far as I'd go. The fact that a VPI Traveler couldn't beat it says more about the Traveler than it does about the Pioneer. I've never been impressed by VPI's budget tables.

For the record, I've got nothing at all against direct drive, or Pioneer for that matter. As I said, a heavily modded SL-1200 can actually be a formidable table, I'm just not sure it's worth the money it costs to get it there. I've also heard proper Pioneer tables, like the PL-707, which are quite good, as are many of the higher end JVC, Yamaha, and Kenwood DDs from the late '70s and early '80s. Tables like the Exclusive P3 and Kenwood L-07D could probably send more than a few $5K belt drives home.

 

UH-OH!!! Who's pokemon will win this battle... Piss poor pro-ject ( which I humbly own) or the terrible Technics... Lol
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zerodeefex

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2015, 05:16:05 PM »

I went through 3 LP1240s before I found one without platter wobble.
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OJneg

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2015, 06:45:08 PM »

It's all relative. If it makes you feel any better, it's possible the Doctor's SL1200 is screwed up, bad bearings, etc. A lot of this stuff is old. We really have no idea the condition they are in.

On the DD vs. belt drive, it's more implementation and trade-offs. I don't think you can make generalizations about it when you've only owned one budget DD TT and listened to one budget belt drive TT for a collective total of 12 minutes. Motor or other extraneous noise become more obvious with MC or more resolving carts. Then again, the way you're headed, you are probably going to say that MM carts are all that he necessary.

The fact is, if you are happy where you are at, you don't need to worry about it. It's actually a good thing.

wtf seriously? I've heard plenty of these things. I was getting into vinyl before I joined this forum. Rega RP1, RP3, RB303 on custom plinths, Pro-ject carbon, debut carbon, ATLP120 DD's, cheap plastic-built belts (Denon, AT)

BTW, I've heard a few conflicting opinions on MC's too. And I'm very open to the possibility that they're better than MM's. No idea how bringing those up is supposed to support your argument. Strawman detected. Your average MM is at least good enough to resolve the inaccuracies of most belt drives  poo

The hard part is just trying to reconcile your impressions with what I know my 1200 sounds like. If you had some other cart or phono it would be easier to dismiss. I'd like to think Anax would tell me if it was utter garbage, or maybe he's just sucking my dick so I build random electronics for him.
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Marvey

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2015, 07:15:05 PM »

What is there to dismiss? You have been comparing one kind of turd (budget dd) to another kind (budget bd).

Next level up from what youve heard would be the VPI Scouts with the acrylic platters and separate lightweight motor pillars, which still were not good enough for me personally. The Linn LP12 came close with mods, but after getting all decked out, it was stupid expensive.

I'm no fan of the Rega 1, 2, or 3 series. I've owned two Rega 3 series with various arms and in the end sold them. Never again.

I've been out of this for a while. But the VPI Classic series caught my eye because they shifted to all metal platters and decided to secure the motor to the plinth. A more cost effective solution than an external motor encased in DU. I find this solution better than the prior VPI lower end Scout, Scoutmasters, Aries of the years past.

In short, the SL1200 and Rega 3 and Projects are not good enough for me personally to make a radical switch from digital. I'm not looking for another budget table.

I like value and in some ways I am cheap. If the SL1200 was any good, I would have stolen Craig's by now.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2015, 07:36:27 PM »

Tables under $2K are very difficult to make not suck. The Michell TecnoDec is OK, the Origin-Live Aurora isn't terrible, SOTA Satellite is decent. None of these tables are what I would call "brilliant" but for the money you can certainly do a lot worse. If I was limited to around $1.5K though, I'd probably skip all of these and just buy one of the Vinyl Nirvana Thorens tables.

http://vinylnirvana.com/vintage-turntables-for-sale/
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OJneg

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2015, 10:45:14 PM »

What is there to dismiss? You have been comparing one kind of turd (budget dd) to another kind (budget bd).

Next level up from what youve heard would be the VPI Scouts with the acrylic platters and separate lightweight motor pillars, which still were not good enough for me personally. The Linn LP12 came close with mods, but after getting all decked out, it was stupid expensive.

I'm no fan of the Rega 1, 2, or 3 series. I've owned two Rega 3 series with various arms and in the end sold them. Never again.

I've been out of this for a while. But the VPI Classic series caught my eye because they shifted to all metal platters and decided to secure the motor to the plinth. A more cost effective solution than an external motor encased in DU. I find this solution better than the prior VPI lower end Scout, Scoutmasters, Aries of the years past.

In short, the SL1200 and Rega 3 and Projects are not good enough for me personally to make a radical switch from digital. I'm not looking for another budget table.

I like value and in some ways I am cheap. If the SL1200 was any good, I would have stolen Craig's by now.


When you use the phrase "bad turntable sound" I dismiss. Also when you say Pro-ject and 1200 are just "different"...yeah no

I'm sure the VPI is excellent and destroys everything
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Anaxilus

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2015, 11:24:31 PM »

I think people are making mountains out of molehills. I'd stay calm and look at comparing TT's w/o fuzzy mats first before drawing general conclusions about anything. Clearly using a $10 piece of lint instead of the stock factory mat is cause enough to refrain from concluding anything if impressions here and elsewhere are any indication.

I wish OJ's table wasn't in the middle of waiting for a recable to ship so we could have met up and parsed through all the variables.
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