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Author Topic: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)  (Read 3219 times)

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Marvey

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2015, 04:32:30 AM »

When I get back from the DC area, I'll grab Craig's Technics table and give it a go. Not sure what carts he has, but he mentioned he had quite a few good ones already mounted to headshells.

So many donut shops around here.
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Anaxilus

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2015, 04:37:23 AM »

Cholesterol and STDs. Sounds like DC to me.
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Marvey

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2015, 04:47:24 AM »

There is no way your VPI Classic is a limiting factor for any cartridge you put on it, unless there is a resonance mismatch.  I've heard the Classic 1 with a Koetsu Coralstone, Airtight Supreme, Clearaudio Goldfinger and many others.  It brought out everything those carts are known for.

If it isn't killing most of the turntables out there, something is not setup correctly or optimized properly. You have bought a KILLER turntable, you just don't know it yet :)  it will be years before you outgrow that machine.

When u r ready,  :& , you need the SDS or the new Roadrunner supply, adjustable VTA tower upgrade, periphery ring, clamp.  You will not need another turntable in your life pretty much.

You bought really well!

Thanks for your advice. I've been taking notes and reading up on things. Good to know where the table stands. Perhaps part of it is that the cart I have is new and still breaking in. While already more resolving and dynamic than digital, I still get a feeling that there's still just a little bit more contained in those grooves. Hard to describe, but it's this sense of discomfort or perhaps strain knowing it's there, but just not getting to it all. I guess I'll give it another 30 more records and see.

On the speed control, I assume that if I don't go for the SDS but instead the Roadrunner, I'd have to opt for the hefty 15W Eagle version? My thinking is based upon what you said about the tweak with the HRX pulley and two belts. My concern for future-proofing is that running two belts, while providing better hold on the platter, might also introduce motor noise, therefore I may eventually need to go with the quieter 300 RPM motor (instead of the 600 RPM that I have now.) Supposedly the quieter motor sucks more juice, therefore the standard Falcon version won't work.

The VTA tower looks handy. Too many records at too many thicknesses. One thing I've noticed is how sensitive this table is to minor adjustments. This is something that is new to me. I actually took the effort to level it out precisely, which made a difference. Also played with VTA, and it seems HW's recommendations on just not using it and increasing VTF a slight bit works better. More lively and less reserved sounding. I can people preferring it the other way though.

The clamp makes a huge difference. Sometimes I forget to put it on (actually happened when Adam was here), and I'm like, hmm, doesn't sound as focused or resolving, until I noticed I didn't put it on. I figure the heavy duty center weights like the HRX one are better? What do you think about the super heavy center weights from TTW? Do you think they are too much (I think one of them is 3 or 5 lbs.). A heavier clamp is an easy decision since they aren't that expensive.

The periphery ring is quite a lot. It appears from the indent on the edge platter that the ring can actually also fit on top of the platter (and a record can put on top of both the ring and platter -- when I am lazy). I am thinking about machining this part myself because it is the priciest piece.

Finally what do you think of the one piece 3D printed JMW tonearm?
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drfindley

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2015, 05:02:14 AM »

The clamp makes a huge difference. Sometimes I forget to put it on (actually happened when Adam was here), and I'm like, hmm, doesn't sound as focused or resolving, until I noticed I didn't put it on.

I've actually wondered if this would spice up my Rega or my Technics
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Anaxilus

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2015, 05:05:38 AM »

I've actually wondered if this would spice up my Rega or my Technics

I think it's going to be relative to the table, record, weight/size/shape of the clamp, etc. etc. Clamping is definitely not a 100% universal benefit IME.
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CEE TEE

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2015, 05:29:18 AM »

Anyone know where I can get a mat? This one seems to be for newer models and is too big: RGS0008

I'm sure it'll improve the sound, I'd be shocked if this was the panacea for all things ailing the 1200.
Here?

EDIT: They are out of platter mats. Boo.
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CEE TEE

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2015, 05:33:09 AM »

I can lend my 1200 to see if it is as bad as you guys are experiencing with drfindley's.  Give me a ring. The A/B might help.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2015, 05:42:15 AM »

Thanks for your advice. I've been taking notes and reading up on things. Good to know where the table stands. Perhaps part of it is that the cart I have is new and still breaking in. While already more resolving and dynamic than digital, I still get a feeling that there's still just a little bit more contained in those grooves. Hard to describe, but it's this sense of discomfort or perhaps strain knowing it's there, but just not getting to it all. I guess I'll give it another 30 more records and see.

2M Black right? The Shibata on that is very sensitive to VTA/SRA. It may be that you just need to tweak it a bit more, or it could just be break in. Your table definitely isn't holding you back. I've heard it with a Koetsu Rosewood Sig and it was great.
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drfindley

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2015, 06:12:41 AM »

I can lend my 1200 to see if it is as bad as you guys are experiencing with drfindley's.  Give me a ring. The A/B might help.

Maybe you should come over or I over there and let's do a 1200 comparo. It'd be great if it was nothing other than a mat
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shaizada

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2015, 07:11:00 AM »

Thanks for your advice. I've been taking notes and reading up on things. Good to know where the table stands. Perhaps part of it is that the cart I have is new and still breaking in. While already more resolving and dynamic than digital, I still get a feeling that there's still just a little bit more contained in those grooves. Hard to describe, but it's this sense of discomfort or perhaps strain knowing it's there, but just not getting to it all. I guess I'll give it another 30 more records and see.

Definitely give the cartridge a good workout so it all breaks in properly.  If it is a brand new cartridge, it takes time to settle in...just keep playing records :)  We can revisit it later and see what might be still holding you back in accordance with what you are looking for. 


On the speed control, I assume that if I don't go for the SDS but instead the Roadrunner, I'd have to opt for the hefty 15W Eagle version? My thinking is based upon what you said about the tweak with the HRX pulley and two belts. My concern for future-proofing is that running two belts, while providing better hold on the platter, might also introduce motor noise, therefore I may eventually need to go with the quieter 300 RPM motor (instead of the 600 RPM that I have now.) Supposedly the quieter motor sucks more juice, therefore the standard Falcon version won't work.

What I like about the Falcon is that it keeps checking your speed and making micro adjustments automatically to compensate for it.  I haven't heard that unit myself, so I'm not 100% sure about its total sonic benefits.  Maybe you should buy the unit after proper consultation with Falcon themselves.  Once you have it, we can compare the SDS and the Falcon and see which one is better.  I have a feeling the Falcon is, in which case I WILL sell my SDS and get the Falcon units.  If the SDS is better, just sell / Return the Falcon and get the SDS.  That will settle that whole thing once and for all.  Please call VPI as well and make sure your Classic is fine to be used with the SDS.

The VTA tower looks handy. Too many records at too many thicknesses. One thing I've noticed is how sensitive this table is to minor adjustments. This is something that is new to me. I actually took the effort to level it out precisely, which made a difference. Also played with VTA, and it seems HW's recommendations on just not using it and increasing VTF a slight bit works better. More lively and less reserved sounding. I can people preferring it the other way though..

The Classic will let you hear every damn change you make to the table in ANY capacity.  You can really tune the sound of the table with the VTA and VTF settings.  Again, if you bring the table at some point, I will tune this with you and make sure it is sounding correct.  It is recommended to run no anti skating on the table and increasing the VTF by 0.1g.  Just make sure the wire loop from the tonearm into the junction box is nice and round. No weird kinks etc.
Needs to look nice and smooth like this:


Should not look like this or anything else that is not smooth like the above picture:




The clamp makes a huge difference. Sometimes I forget to put it on (actually happened when Adam was here), and I'm like, hmm, doesn't sound as focused or resolving, until I noticed I didn't put it on. I figure the heavy duty center weights like the HRX one are better? What do you think about the super heavy center weights from TTW? Do you think they are too much (I think one of them is 3 or 5 lbs.). A heavier clamp is an easy decision since they aren't that expensive.

The VPI Classic bearing is amazingly solid!  You can easily run your 5 lb. clamp with no reservations.  But more weight is not necessarily the answer :) I have 6 or 7 different clamps that I use, depending on what I want from the performance.  Once size does NOT fit all.  But you should absolutely start with the VPI HRX Center Weight and Periphery ring.  They work together amazingly well and propel the performance of the table like you've never heard.  Again, I have both these items.  You can hear the difference for yourself.

The periphery ring is quite a lot. It appears from the indent on the edge platter that the ring can actually also fit on top of the platter (and a record can put on top of both the ring and platter -- when I am lazy). I am thinking about machining this part myself because it is the priciest piece.

Don't machine the part (you can if you want to).  But the VPI ring is a sonic masterpiece that is perfectly matched up with the table.  Just save up and buy it...you only need to do this once, so do it right.  I cannot fathom you buying another turntable to leave the Classic in the dust...so just get it running to it's full capability and enjoy it for the rest of your days....seriously!

Finally what do you think of the one piece 3D printed JMW tonearm?

The 3D tonearm could be a second armwand you MIGHT want to get.  It is slightly fuller and warmer than the all metal armwand you have right now.  The same and even more sonic differences can be had with cables, VTF settings, Clamps etc.  I don't think it is an absolute must, but when you are ready to purchase a second arm for your new dedicated mono cartridge, go ahead and get the 3D armwand for nice change of pace.  Matching all the items together is the real key.

Honestly, get the upgrades sorted out first.  That way the table will perform to its best ability and you can really see what any cartridge, tonearm cable and various other tweaks and changes are doing.  Again, I know the VPI tables especially well...so if you need any help or anything, just ask.  :)p7
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