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Author Topic: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)  (Read 3219 times)

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Marvey

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2015, 07:53:44 PM »

The Gram Amp 2 and LBC Statement use opamps. I'm sure Schiit, being direct sales, could easily exceed those two designs with a discrete or perhaps part discrete, part opamp design with a passive RIAA network and good power section for $400-$600.

The problem is would they get enough sales to make such a design worthwhile? Someone who just bought a table for $500 may not want to be spending another $500 for a phono pre, even though the thought of spending the same amount on the phono pre as on the table is normal for the more experienced vinyl nutjobs.

The Mani is impressive for what it has and what it costs, but I can't help but wonder if they could've gotten more out of it by focusing purely on MMs

Probably not. It was simply in the nature of the design that offering an MC option was an easy thing to do via two sets of DIP switches and few more resistors. Also 59db (max) gain might not be enough for some MC carts / amps.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2015, 10:18:01 PM »

The problem is would they get enough sales to make such a design worthwhile? Someone who just bought a table for $500 may not want to be spending another $500 for a phono pre, even though the thought of spending the same amount on the phono pre as on the table is normal for the more experienced vinyl nutjobs.

There's the real question. I don't think people with $500 tables are likely to buy $500 Phono pres, nor would I really recommend they do that. What about the person with the Music Hall Ikura, or Pro-Ject 2Xperience, or RP6, Scout Jr, Clearaudio Concept, etc? If you can be convinced to spend more than the price of a Debut Carbon to really hear what's in those grooves, you can also probably be convinced that you need to step up from the basic level $100-200 Phono pres, and I think there's some meat left on those bones for Schiit to chew on...at least assuming that the Mani has been a sales success for them.

The Graham Slee and the Lehmann are fine for what they are, but obviously for a company like Schiit that has to worry less about margins and can afford more costly discrete components, that opens up the door to make something that sounds much more impressive. What would also be very cool is if they could match or at least get close to the amazing adjustability of the Phonomena (6 gain settings, 8 loading impedance options, 2 capacitance loading options) for less cost. The vast majority of Phono pres can't get near that, including my $4K Sutherland. 

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Marvey

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2015, 10:48:52 PM »

Phonomena (6 gain settings, 8 loading impedance options, 2 capacitance loading options) for less cost. The vast majority of Phono pres can't get near that, including my $4K Sutherland. 

Those are really nice options to have. Right now I have resistors and caps hanging off the inputs inside the chassis to tweak these things. I'm finding that carts, say for example the 2M Black I currently have, don't necessarily sound the best with the manufacturer recommended loading. Need to get a test record soon and measure this stuff.
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JK47

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2015, 11:01:54 PM »

I spent $450 on a phono pre for my $450 turntable  :)p2

Originally I spent $150 on a preamp, it picked up 2 different radio stations, and had a nasty hummmmm. I narrowed it down to the line out's of the preamp (tried multiple different cables, moving where it sat, and grounding strategies), wrapped it in tin foil and knocked down the various noises to acceptable levels poo Got sick of looking at it and pawned it off, spent the money to upgrade. Which it did, zero radio stations, no hum what so ever until I crank the volume past 2 o'clock, and only a little in the right channel, the left channel is dead silent (way to loud to listen to at that level anyway). I'm content for now...
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 04:37:34 AM by JK47 »
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Chris F

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2015, 04:09:38 AM »

Those are really nice options to have. Right now I have resistors and caps hanging off the inputs inside the chassis to tweak these things. I'm finding that carts, say for example the 2M Black I currently have, don't necessarily sound the best with the manufacturer recommended loading. Need to get a test record soon and measure this stuff.

Memory is failing but I recall that somebody measured the FR of the 2M Black a few years ago and discovered that you can smooth it out by changing the resistance to 33K.  Most phono stages don't allow for changing MM resistance so I never tried it out with mine.  Capacitance only made a small difference; the lower the better.

Edit:  Found the link.  Click me :)
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Marvey

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Re: Turntable (x3) and Phono-Pre Comparison (x7 + x2 variants)
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2015, 08:14:47 AM »

Yup. I pulled the caps and am relying on only the capacitance of the tonearm wire and interconnects (pushing peak higher and extending FR). Keeping 48k ohms - don't mind the bump. Also, finally took the time to set things up correctly. Originally, azimuth was totally off. SRA was off too like at 85°. Won't say who set it up, and to be fair, TT's should probably be set up after they are leveled at the location they are set to be used. Anyways, fixed azimuth, and set SRA to 90° (for the typical records I play) after initially trying 92°. I used a digital camera and zoomed in, drawing lines in Photoshop. Much better now with focused clarity and plankton. It's definitely dialed-in.
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