Topic: "Audiophoolery"? (Read 10932 times)

OJneg · « **Reply #110 on:** July 14, 2015, 10:41:49 PM »

I've said this a million times but it's worth repeating. I've never felt the need to judge headphones or speakers blindfolded. And my impressions are pretty much always in line with the "objective" measurable reference whether it be FR, CSD, THD, etc. I figure I should be able to judge electronics the same way (unblinded) and although the measurable difference might be small/negligible/opposite, I like to at least think I'm hearing things as they truly sound.

Every pirate has heard expensive, over-hyped stuff that just sounds like utter garbage, so the whole placebo argument doesn't work around these parts. For Head-Fi or certain other forums you might be able to point to that.

Mav, I also think the "it sound fine to me" argument doesn't hold much water. I used to think my $20 pair of Senn earbuds sounded "fine". That is, until I dived deeper down the hole. These days I can't listen to those things without

Mav, also consider the possibility that whatever Stax or AKG you're rolling with just isn't transparent enough to resolve differences. Food for thought.

Other than that, I agree with Marv. These threads give me headaches.

Deep Funk · « **Reply #111 on:** July 14, 2015, 10:43:41 PM »

I once used to hang out on Head-Case. There I learnt more than enough about Nwavguy. The thread is from 2011. There is one thing with people who are too into their -ism: too many words.

http://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/9312-nwavguy-vs-nuforce/

maverickronin · « **Reply #112 on:** July 14, 2015, 11:00:53 PM »

Quote from: lmader on July 14, 2015, 10:19:14 PM

It seems like NwAvGuy and maybe xNor poisoned that well with their rabid arguments.

I don't really like raining on anybody's parade so I don't go instigating stuff in any of the amp or DAC threads here, or anywhere. It wouldn't really do anyone any good anyway. I brought it up here because the general subject was already under discussion.. What really gets people like me and NwAvGuy all riled up is seeing noobs being advised to spend money on stuff that isn't going to further their enjoyment of music.

When I used to frequent all the "help me pick" threads on Head-Fi they were packed full of people telling noobs to spend hundreds of dollars on things that wouldn't help them at all.

Don't like that K701 out of a receiver? You need a dedicated headamp. Don't like it out of the headamp? You need a better DAC. Still don't like it it? Better get it recabled. That didn't help either? Your taste in music just sucks. It never ends. Maybe the amp or the DAC helps a bit but the poor noob would have been better off retuning it right away and getting an HD600 or DT880 instead of being stung along and told not to "give up on it" until he's heard "what it's really capable of"

Maybe you don't just like the headphone. A different amp rarely fixes the problem. Maybe Head-Fi's hype train has just given you unrealistic exceptions about what a headphone can sound like and sent you down the yellow brick road of upgrades looking for something that doesn't exist.

That makes me angry and that's why I still bother to discuss thing kind of thing online.

Quote from: lmader on July 14, 2015, 10:19:14 PM

Also, I can understand that these discussions are probably not so interesting to the well seasoned veterans. But for me it's a perspective that I still like to see bandied about occasionally, as long as it doesn't get religious.

Anax and I have been arguing this off and on going all the way back to HF and for 4 or 5 years now, so it's fairly friendly even though we disagree.

lachlanlikesathing · « **Reply #113 on:** July 14, 2015, 11:22:34 PM »

Quote from: maverickronin on July 14, 2015, 05:56:04 PM

build an Arduino powered automated ABX switch box

Actually, how much would it cost to build such a thing? I sometimes wish I could buy a little ABX box.

maverickronin · « **Reply #114 on:** July 14, 2015, 11:37:18 PM »

Quote from: lachlanlikesathing on July 14, 2015, 11:22:34 PM

Actually, how much would it cost to build such a thing? I sometimes wish I could buy a little ABX box.

Not really sure. That's why I need to plan and price it out. If I ever actually do it, and it come out cheaper than a commercial solution, then I'll make plans public.

Marvey · « **Reply #115 on:** July 15, 2015, 12:02:48 AM »

Why don't you do what I did with the Radio Shack selector? I simply used it in reverse.

Anaxilus · « **Reply #116 on:** July 15, 2015, 01:19:13 AM »

Quote from: maverickronin on July 14, 2015, 08:36:20 PM

Well, all analogies breakdown somewhere because they're not the same thing, but driving blindfolded was your idea...

Amps and DACs don't care what what the grey matter between some primate's ears interpret a signal as. It just moves electric charges back and forth.

ICE cars just pump hot air that turns axles. Still want to buy a performance car based on a dyno sheet and gear ratios? Didn't think so. Of course if one 'believes' Ethan Weiner, audio reproduction is very simple. Real engineers with comprehensive life experience usually know that nothing is that simple.

Anaxilus · « **Reply #117 on:** July 15, 2015, 01:48:32 AM »

Quote from: maverickronin on July 14, 2015, 11:00:53 PM

What really gets people like me and NwAvGuy all riled up is seeing noobs being advised to spend money on stuff that isn't going to further their enjoyment of music.

No, what gets that dude all riled up is anyone who believes any gear in existence could sound better than his ODAC+O2. His goal was largely self aggrandizement and forming a cult more so than helping the little guy. If that was his goal, he would have been far less douchey about his certitude than to crap is numerous threads on various sites. Personally, I still think he's a sock puppet for some other well known audio personality that has probably spouted this same stuff in the past.

Funny, I actually didn't bring car analogies up, NWAVdouche did with his beater Miata and 17" dubs if you recall. Then it was watches and I forget whatever else.

Also, that blind test I linked was the first time I had ever heard either amp. Give me a week with both to learn their signatures and differences and it would be easy peesy. I also came over not knowing I was going to perform a test. Thought I was going to drink booz, eat food and play with capacitors. Yes, those factors matter. Now replace the Magni with the Ragnarok and it's a joke of a test. You could do that one while asleep underwater.
____________

Btw, I think Mav is great. I'm RL friends with anetode and value him dearly. I also like Solderdude quite a bit, perhaps more than he and others might suspect. I just get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again for more than a decade and repeating myself the same. I was fine with the wacky vids about cables and rocks, but Ethan Weiner just sets me the fuck off with his god complex. It's the pseudo objective pretense of omniscience coupled with the condescension that if you hear a difference your mind is playing tricks on you and your too stupid to know that gets to me. Really?

So when we bitch about these mega buck speakers in mega buck piano lacquer cabinets worked by grand master Amish craftsmen and their little elven hands and say they sound like shit, what bias is not at play there that is with DACs and amps? Are you kidding??

Sorrodje · « **Reply #118 on:** July 15, 2015, 12:14:10 PM »

About Amp and dacs. I was definitely in the camp that think differences between Dacs or amps is BS. But my ears told me that's not true.

That's said and sorry If I offense someone but IME, even if i can hear some differences, i'm not convinced I would detect in an ABX test. at Best, those differences are "subtle"... notice the double quotes please, they matter.

"Subtle" for me can be "none" for someone and "drastic" for someone else. Depends on experience , skills , expectancy I presum. Depends on how we use the words as well . On most public forums , nobody takes care to explain where he comes from... impressions without a full context are useless.

What makes me confident in the fact those differences are real and not only a product of my imagination/bias/psychology is when I realize that me and some friends here or there ( RL, CS, Head-fi , Tellementnomade.org ) can identify exactly the same points/flaws in a Dac or an amp even if we didn't share any impressions before the try and even if we have different tastes.

I did that experience with the HE-9 recently.. the friend listened to it for the first time and identified immediately the quality of soundstage, especially depth and layering. HE-9 is very rare and very few people heard it. I did , Negura did and then My friend. Never heard or read any other impressions so we can't be influenced by some Hype. I heard the HE-9 and was wowed by the soundstage.. then I did a search and found what Negura wrote on HF on this Soundstage.. and then my friend heard it... we all heard the same precise thing at different times, with different headphones and different music. Dunno where and how it's measurable but the HE-9 soundstage abilities are real for us.

So between objectvists and subjectivists , it seems I live in a kind of grey area... I'm mostly confident in what science tells us but I'm also confident in my own ears and I'm maybe even more confident in some friends ears.

Hifi01170 · « **Reply #119 on:** July 15, 2015, 01:53:33 PM »

Quote from: Sorrodje on July 15, 2015, 12:14:10 PM

I realize that me and some friends here or there ( RL, CS, Head-fi , Tellementnomade.org )

Hi Sorrodje,

what is RL? something I have missed?

Thx

Author Topic: "Audiophoolery"? (Read 10932 times)

OJneg

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

Deep Funk

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

maverickronin

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

lachlanlikesathing

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

maverickronin

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

Marvey

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

Anaxilus

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

Anaxilus

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

Sorrodje

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

Hifi01170

Re: "Audiophoolery"?

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Author Topic: "Audiophoolery"? (Read 10932 times)