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Author Topic: "Audiophoolery"?  (Read 10922 times)

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maverickronin

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2015, 05:56:04 PM »

Let's establish a set of listening parameters and tracks. You make notes on your method and listening notes and keep it for yourself. Send me the gear you tested (UHA4, Zip, ODAC, etc.) and I'll replicate the method and make my own notes. After we'll both compare and post here. We can even have another person we both know make their own notes. After I return the gear to you, then we can go over the posted notes and we can see who is or isn't hearing what.

Unfortunately, uncontrolled tests are not evidence for this kind of thing so your proposed protocol won't establish anything.

If we didn't live 2000 miles apart I'd build an Arduino powered automated ABX switch box and meet up with you do do some real tests but since most of you guys are in SoCal that's not likely to ever happen.
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Anaxilus

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2015, 06:02:29 PM »

Unfortunately, uncontrolled tests are not evidence for this kind of thing so your proposed protocol won't establish anything.

Sure it won't... ::)
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Priidik

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2015, 06:23:23 PM »

That's not zealotry, that's physics. If there's one parameter that he forgot to mention here, it is the fallibility of human perception.

While he might be very experienced as a sound engineer, he gives the impression of deriving all his 'knowledge of fidelity' from books/datasheets rather than actual listening. Yea, i read the whole thing.
To me it seems it lets some people sleep better if they can make sense of everything they encounter in life.
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briskly

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2015, 06:28:01 PM »

Instead of a conventional listening test, why not try and null these differences out, and listen to the result of that? We eliminate the main audio signal as a potential masking factor by doing so. This could only be attempted if the amplifiers really did measure "identically".
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maverickronin

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2015, 06:30:13 PM »

Sure it won't... ::)

So do we not need controlled testing for pharmaceuticals either then?

Should we give people some magic water, take a few notes, and conclude it cured them just because they said so?

The stakes aren't as high, but the same concepts still apply.
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madaboutaudio

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2015, 06:37:22 PM »

If all dacs / amps sound the same, then Tyll must be wasting his time doing this Big Sound 2015:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-help-im-drowning-electronics#3JBKjkc8l8bYJ0vX.97
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maverickronin

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2015, 06:40:11 PM »

If all dacs / amps sound the same, then Tyll must be wasting his time doing this Big Sound 2015:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-help-im-drowning-electronics#3JBKjkc8l8bYJ0vX.97

I don't think anyone says that they all sound the same.  I certainly don't.
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madaboutaudio

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #87 on: July 14, 2015, 06:41:38 PM »

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DaveBSC

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #88 on: July 14, 2015, 06:42:36 PM »

I don't think anyone says that they all sound the same.  I certainly don't.

People absolutely say that. People like the AudioCritic believe that any properly designed amplifier that is not actively clipping will sound indistinguishable from any other amplifier, and the only possibly difference will be if you purposefully introduce a form of distortion via something like 300Bs.

"Amplifiers have been quite excellent for more than a few decades, offering few opportunities for engineering breakthroughs. There are significant differences in topology, measured specifications, physical design, and cosmetics, not to mention price, but the sound of all properly designed units is basically the same. The biggest diversity is in power supplies, ranging from barely adequate to ridiculously overdesigned. That may or may not affect the sound quality, depending on the impedance characteristics and efficiency of the loudspeaker. The point is that, unless the amplifier has serious design errors or is totally mismatched to a particular speaker, the sound you will hear is the sound of the speaker, not the amplifier. As for the future, I think it belongs to highly refined class D amplifiers, such as Bang & Olufsen’s ICEpower modules and Bruno Putzeys’s modular Hypex designs, compact and efficient enough to be incorporated in powered loudspeakers. The free-standing power amplifier will slowly become history, except perhaps as an audiophile affectation. What about vacuum-tube designs? If you like second-harmonic distortion, output transformers, and low damping factors, be my guest. (Can you imagine a four-way powered loudspeaker driven by vacuum-tube modules?)"

I'm sure Jason and Mike would be delighted to learn that they completely wasted their time creating the Rag, when it can sound no better than the Magni 2. Everything that can be done has been done, and only your headphones can make any difference to the sound.
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ultrabike

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #89 on: July 14, 2015, 06:44:16 PM »

Not trying to put words in Mav's mouth, but I think Mav means people participating in this thread.

People absolutely say that. People like the AudioCritic believe that any properly designed amplifier that is not actively clipping will sound indistinguishable from any other amplifier, and the only possibly difference will be if you purposefully introduce a form of distortion via something like 300Bs.

"Amplifiers have been quite excellent for more than a few decades, offering few opportunities for engineering breakthroughs. There are significant differences in topology, measured specifications, physical design, and cosmetics, not to mention price, but the sound of all properly designed units is basically the same. The biggest diversity is in power supplies, ranging from barely adequate to ridiculously overdesigned. That may or may not affect the sound quality, depending on the impedance characteristics and efficiency of the loudspeaker. The point is that, unless the amplifier has serious design errors or is totally mismatched to a particular speaker, the sound you will hear is the sound of the speaker, not the amplifier. As for the future, I think it belongs to highly refined class D amplifiers, such as Bang & Olufsen’s ICEpower modules and Bruno Putzeys’s modular Hypex designs, compact and efficient enough to be incorporated in powered loudspeakers. The free-standing power amplifier will slowly become history, except perhaps as an audiophile affectation. What about vacuum-tube designs? If you like second-harmonic distortion, output transformers, and low damping factors, be my guest. (Can you imagine a four-way powered loudspeaker driven by vacuum-tube modules?)"

I'm sure Jason and Mike would be delighted to learn that they completely wasted their time creating the Rag, when it can sound no better than the Magni 2. Everything that can be done has been done, and only your headphones can make any difference to the sound.

If you are set on the speakers you want, then the DAC and the Amp become the determining factors.

If you are set on the DAC and the Amp you want, then the transducers become the determining factors.

Cables proly, if you are set on the DAC, Amp and speakers. But IMO hard to fuck those up real bad.

Now, I think transducers are harder to get consistent and right. So I would start there. Though it be an iterative process where you find a transducer you absolutely must have, but has some special driving requirements which narrow your choices more that you would like, and it's back to the drawing board.
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