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Author Topic: "Audiophoolery"?  (Read 10922 times)

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anetode

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2015, 06:24:02 AM »

(Disclosure: Nathan supports me on Patreon)

This isn't Head-Fi, you don't have to disclose your whole financial history or pay a levy to contribute. Or self-censor, for that matter. For example:

Anyone who makes grand universal claims like, "there are only four audio parameters". Or says, "let me define transparency for you," is a fucking zealot.

That's bullshit, does claiming that the Earth revolves around the Sun make me an Acolyte of Ra?
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lachlanlikesathing

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2015, 06:35:41 AM »

This isn't Head-Fi, you don't have to disclose your whole financial history or pay a levy to contribute.

Eh, I disclose it because I feel more at ease doing so more than anything else. Saves trouble down the road.
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anetode

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2015, 06:41:51 AM »

Eh, I disclose it because I feel more at ease doing so more than anything else. Saves trouble down the road.

You picked the wrong thread to have a conscience in, bub.
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Deep Funk

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2015, 08:14:07 AM »

'audiofool/audiophool' seems to be an increasingly common term of derision I see on the internet these days.

Personally, and this is no great insight on my part, it seems to be a backlash against a) the rising popularity of high end personal audio products and b) the outlandish and irrational claims that some manufacturers make about their gear and c) various cloud fortresses on the internet where those claims get translated into perpetual hype machines.

Honestly it makes me upset when I see companies spruiking stuff that can't possibly render the improvements claimed because it just makes a hobby I enjoy seem more irrational than it already is.

I don't know what you can really do about it. About 16:33 in John Darko of Digital Audio Review actually talks a fair bit about this idea in an interview on Nathan Wright's podcast Ohm Air (Disclosure: Nathan supports me on Patreon) https://soundcloud.com/ohm-image/ohm-air-013-legally-inactive-pt-2

"Anybody who's not an audiophile... must think we're absolutely bonkers."

I had to go back and watch my own videos to see if I uptalk actually. Same as when I learnt about vocal fry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_fry_register I'm not trying to be Kai Ryssdal but I have to listen to myself talk all the time when video editing and it's been helpful to pick out terrible speech patterns I've developed.

I consider you a good reviewer in general even if our tastes and descriptive language may differ a bit. You do not come across as pretentious or "listen to my audio jargon."

There is nothing wrong with Patreon if you ask me. It is not a contract that obliges you for that depends on the content creator.
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Anaxilus

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2015, 08:47:10 AM »

That's bullshit, does claiming that the Earth revolves around the Sun make me an Acolyte of Ra?

That's equivocation. You've exceeded your fallacy limit for the month.
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anetode

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2015, 09:07:44 AM »

That's equivocation. You've exceeded your fallacy limit for the month.


Ah, but you have no problem misrepresenting Ethan's claims.

Quote (selected)
Only four parameters are needed to define everything that affects audio quality: Noise, frequency response, distortion, and time-based errors. Let's look at each of these parameters in turn.

Noise is the background hiss you hear when you turn your receiver way up, and you can also hear it during quiet passages when playing open reel or cassette tapes. A close cousin is dynamic range, which defines the span (expressed in decibels) between the background noise and the loudest level possible before the onset of gross distortion. CDs and DVDs have a very large dynamic range, so any noise you may hear was either from the original analog tape, was added as a byproduct during production, or was present in the room and picked up by the microphones when the recording was first made.

Subsets of noise are AC power-related hum and buzz, electronic crackling, vinyl record clicks and pops, between-station radio noises, tape modulation noise, cross-talk, windows that rattle and buzz at high volume levels, and the triboelectric cable effect. You're unlikely to notice tape modulation noise outside of a recording studio because it's specific to analog tape recorders, which are fast becoming obsolete, and usually hidden by the music itself. You can sometimes hear it if you listen carefully to a recording of a bass solo, where each note is accompanied by a "pfft" sound that disappears between the notes. The triboelectric effect is also called "handling noise" because it occurs when handling poorly made cables. I haven't seen a cable with this defect in about 20 years.

Frequency response is how uniformly a device responds over a range of frequencies. Errors are heard as too much or too little bass, midrange, or treble. For most people, the audible range extends from about 25 Hz at the low end, to just shy of 20 KHz at the high end. Even though many audiophiles believe it's important for audio equipment to respond to frequencies far beyond 20 KHz, in truth there is no need to reproduce ultrasonic content because nobody can hear it. Subsets of frequency response are physical microphonics, electronic ringing and oscillation, and acoustic ringing. These subsets are not necessary for consumers to understand, but they are important to design engineers and acousticians.

Distortion is the common word for the more technical term nonlinearity, and it adds new frequency components that were not present in the original source. When music passes through a device that adds distortion, new frequencies are created that may or may not be pleasing to the ear. The design goal for audio equipment is that all distortion be so low in level it can't be heard. I'll return later to the notion that distortion can be pleasing when I explain why some audiophiles prefer vinyl records and tube-based electronics.

There are two basic types of distortion - harmonic and intermodulation - and both are almost always present together. Harmonic distortion adds new frequencies that are musically related to the source. In layman terms, harmonic distortion adds a slightly thick or buzzy quality to music. All musical instruments create tones having harmonics, so a device whose distortion adds a little more merely changes the instrument's character by some amount. Electric guitar players use harmonic distortion - often lots of it - to turn a guitar's inherent plink-plink sound into a singing tone having great power and sustain.

Intermodulation (IM) distortion requires two or more frequencies to be present, and it's far more damaging because it creates new content that is not musically related to the original. Even in relatively small amounts, intermodulation distortion adds a dissonant quality that is unpleasant to hear. Another type of distortion is called aliasing, and it's unique to digital recording. Like IM distortion, aliasing creates new frequencies not harmonically related to the original, and so is unpleasant and irritating to hear. Fortunately, in all modern digital gear, aliasing is so low in level that it's inaudible.

Time-based errors affect mainly pitch and tempo. If you've ever played an old LP record where the hole was not quite centered, you've heard the pitch rise and fall with each revolution. This is called wow. Analog tape recorders suffer from a different type of pitch instability called flutter. Unlike the slow pitch change of wow, flutter is much more rapid giving a warbling effect. Digital recorders have a unique type of timing deviation called jitter, but with all modern equipment, jitter is so much softer than the music that you'll never hear it. The last type of time-based error is phase shift, but it's benign even in relatively large amounts.

Room acoustics could be considered a fifth audio parameter, but it really isn't. Nearby room boundaries can create frequency response errors (called comb filtering) due to wave reflections combining in the air. Reflections can also create audible echoes and reverb, but these are time-based phenomenon that occur outside the equipment, so they don't warrant their own category either. Likewise, with power amplifiers, maximum output power is important. But that's not related to fidelity - it merely states how loudly the amplifier can play.

The above parameters encompass everything that affects audio fidelity. If a device has noise and distortion too low to hear, a response sufficient to capture the entire range of audible frequencies, and time-based errors small enough to be insignificant, then that device will be audibly transparent to music and other sound passing through it. However, clarity and stereo imaging are greatly affected by room acoustics; without question, the room you listen in has far more effect on sound quality than any of the audio components.

-- http://ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

That's not zealotry, that's physics. If there's one parameter that he forgot to mention here, it is the fallibility of human perception.
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Deep Funk

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2015, 09:14:40 AM »


That's not zealotry, that's physics. If there's one parameter that he forgot to mention here, it is the fallibility of human perception.

Let us make a list of the human senses.
- Eyes
- Ears
- Nose (scent & taste)
- Skin
- Temperature (warmth & cold)
- Touch (solid, liquid, soft, hard etcetera)

There are a few others and still our hearing is more limited than that of a cat or dog to begin with. Our brains are our only advantage here...
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anetode

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2015, 09:21:32 AM »

Let us make a list of the human senses.
- Eyes
- Ears
- Nose (scent & taste)
- Skin
- Temperature (warmth & cold)
- Touch (solid, liquid, soft, hard etcetera)

There are a few others and still our hearing is more limited than that of a cat or dog to begin with. Our brains are our only advantage here...

True, and I suppose that means Winer also neglected to mention the audio parameters necessary to a synesthete. Now, how does one go about acquiring musical-smelling cables?
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Deep Funk

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2015, 09:26:38 AM »

We have to ask the legendary Patrick  p:/
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Priidik

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Re: "Audiophoolery"?
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2015, 10:19:14 AM »

I dare you or anyone to do that AB and come back here with a straight face and honestly say they sound the same.

Few months ago i would have said one needs resolving cans and dac to hear a difference between amps. Then i heard my very first pair of headphones that i donated to a friend (Technics RP-DH1200) again from a Ehha Rev A. They sounded nothing like a load of  poo they are from every other amp i have tried.  :-00
Sure, we are mostly freaks here, with trained ears and shit, but even my noobish friend heard a difference right a way.
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