Which reel-to-reel did you get, ship? I keep seeing them pop up on craigslist. Where do you even get reel-to-reel media anyways??

@raif -- Thanks to a heads up from Struggles here, I got a Nitty Gritty 1.0 for real cheap. Ship and Dave aren't exaggerating when they say that is the best investment you can possibly make for your vinyl. I may upgrade to a VPI 16.5 whenever this thing breaks down, but I sorta like the idea that the Nitty Gritty has less moving parts to break and has a smaller footprint. Either way, you won't regret any vacuum cleaning machine you end up getting.

I'm in need of a cart upgrade soon. Been rocking the old Shure M97 since I got this rig set up. Been loving being a music head again and getting away from the gearhead mentality, but I do have issues with IGD with some records. Anyone have experience with the AT440MLA or AT33EV?

Anyone come across any listening impressions of those U-Turn Orbit turntables yet?

I know there was a bit of buzz about them during their Kickstarter campaign, with kids from Berklee and Northwestern building a $150 "audiophile" turntable.

I came across this review in Tone Audio Magazine (starts on page 35): http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_59.pdf

The upgraded model with the acrylic platter and upgraded cartridge used to come equipped with an OM5E but now it looks like they're equipping it with the AT95E.

Thinking about this as a Xmas gift for my little brother.

Since most of the recent source talk 'round these parts has been DAC-related, I thought I'd give this thread a bit of a bump.

I've been meaning to get back into vinyl for a while now, but let's face it: having terabytes worth of high quality audio at your fingertips is a pretty irresistible convenience. Over the last few months however I've been fortunate enough to hear quite a few different systems ranging in price from four to six figures. Now, I'll come right out and say that I don't buy too heavily into either side of the whole "analog versus digital" battle, especially when so much of my music is created digitally to begin with, and especially when some of the better DACs these days are more or less able to render live music convincingly to my ears. DACs are still in my future, and in a big way. Yet listening to these record players these past few months, I've realized just how much I truly miss my vinyl. It just has this inner glow, the satisfying presence.

Also I just can't escape the fondness I have for musical automata, the intricate and ornate devices that spin and swivel, the insane level of craftsmanship that goes into assembling these contraptions. It's kind of poetic that vinyl itself hasn't changed much; it's always already given. Yet the same problems persist over the decades, tackled by engineers and designers who want to take a crack at solving them. There's also a social dimension to owning a turntable. It saddens me to think that generations will miss out on visiting brick and mortar record stores, flipping through rows of LPs and see what staff picks and new releases are up on the wall, talking with others and learning like a civilized creature. I learned a lot visiting the local record stores on a regular basis.

Plus unlike DSD there's a ton of amazing music available, and there continues to be.

So, now that I've gotten off of my soapbox, I figured I'd share some of my thoughts culled from the last few months. This was originally going to be a "vinyl 101" introduction-type post, but I figure I'll save the basics on turntable design and setup and all that for another time. Making an actual soapbox post---as in, a post in the soapbox section---seems better suited for that sort of thing. Best to keep that straight forward and organized, not cluttered by my subjective musings.

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Audiophiles love binary opposition, taking sides in various debates. It goes with being an expert, that well traveled attitude afforded by decades of experience, be it first hand experience or magazine reading. There are plenty of sides to take when it comes to turntables: high mass versus low mass, plinth versus no plinth, this platter material versus that, unipivot tonearms versus others, belts versus direct drive, rubber versus silk cords, AC versus DC motors, magnetic suspension versus not, mats versus clamps, whether Linn fans need to be shunned, et cetera et cetera.

Personally, I've adopted a "wait and hear" attitude for the most part, largely because these things depend more on the actual implementation in my experience. I think most pirates here can recognize this in headphone amps: tubes can sound more stereotypically solid state than solid state and visa versa. The same thing happens in the world of turntables. Take the high mass versus low mass debate. Conventional wisdom holds that big, heavy turntables are more inert and less likely to resonate and shutter. I tend to agree with this, but I find it's more vital in the platter than the plinth in practice, and this all hinges on the main bearing.

Massive plinths or basses are characterized by their detractors as sounding dull, lacking the nimbleness of smaller more minimal designs or skeletal plinths. I find this is sometimes the case as in a lot of the "lower end" VPI models, but then the massive Ga libier is one of the most articulate tables I've ever heard; it's definitely "high mass," but the bass is actually a complex network of chambers filled with various compounds. On the other hand lighter weight, more minimalist tables get characterized as responsive but sterile and lacking in tonal richness and authority; this is mostly true for lower-end Regas and Clearaudios but not the case with the P9 and especially Clearaudio's more streamlined Innovation line to my ears. Also the boundaries between plinth and plinth-less get blurred a bit because a lot of these super minimalist tables benefit from the additional of a stable platform anyhow; owners of Simon Yorke tables for instance almost always fix the separate pieces to a single base or even a huge multi-tiered stand.

Really, I think a lot of uber-bucks tables seem over-engineered. I say this from an aesthetics standpoint primarily, but also one of sound too. There's really something to be said for not having your design get in the way. This is why, for instance, Galibier decided to go with their relatively simplistic motor unit instead of something that has feedback loops monitoring speed. I mean if the motor is engineered well to begin with, you really shouldn't need an internal monitor like that right? Frankly I have no opinion either way on the AC versus DC debate, but rather I appreciate the modularity of the motor system that Galibier and also TW's Raven line employ. The Raven's motor unit in particular is quite cleverly designed in its new three pronged configuration, as it allows the belt to wind in a W shape and grip the platter in a less strained, smoother way.

In other words some solutions are elegant and genuinely effective, while others seem more like solutions to problems the designers invented in the first place. When I see all these support struts and frames on these mini Parthenon replicas costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, I honestly just assume one is paying for a functional sculpture first and foremost at that point. Nothing wrong with that per se. However I tend to feel like most $20k+ turntables are, quite frankly, off-putting in their design. Even the TW Raven AC and Black Night are pushing it, but at the end of the day they're saved by the subtle patterning of their satin finish and the functionally gorgeous copper platter. Just don't surround it with more than one motor satellite. As for the Galibier, it has an industrial chic look that pictures hate, but ol' Quasimoto's solid base---its geometric array of mirrors looking like something out of a primitive 3D videogame---hides a complex network lurking within, and I can't help but like a tease. With the additional of a Durand tonearm, a true thing of beauty, the coldness of the table gets a shock of warm organic woodworking and suddenly becomes a study in contrasts that intrigues me to no end.

Really though, it's the stunning sound of the TW Raven Black Night and the Galibier Stelvio that make me want them in my life most of all. "As it should be," according to hardcore audiophiles. The VPI HR-X is another biggun I wouldn't mind owning, really the most neutral but also most lively sounding member of its family, and just an all around good table in general. It's able to walk that thin line between technicality and bliss. Comparatively speaking though, the Black Night rides a unicycle on that tightrope. It does this while managing to look better too, though not because it's more stylized. If anything the HR-X has more of a distinct "look" that has nothing to do with its function. The Black Night's most beautiful features---its copper platter for instance---are first and foremost a testament to functionality.

I came to appreciate just how important the motor design is in allow the platter and main bearing to shine. After all, a platter has to turn at a consistent speed to keep the music from veering off course. Also important to t his end is the belt. Rubber, the old standby, works fairly well if its implemented soundly. The Galibier's mylar proved to be the best overall though, at least by a small margin. I noticed some very slight inconsistencies with rubber, almost akin to DAC jitter to borrow the analogy from Thom Mackris. Really though, I think it again depends on the implementation more than anything. One thing was sure though: silk or fabric cords, while quieter, do indeed result in a slight blurring of the overall image.

When it came to the length of the belt, I honestly felt the shorter drives closer to the coupling were just as good, if not better in some ways compared to the external motor units or "pods." Of course this extradition is done for the sake of resonance, and it's probably reasonable to worry about vibrations transferring over from everything being so closed together, yet some solid and straightforward engineering seems to mostly take care of this. It's here that I feel my love for plinths start to resurface. Really, nothing appeals to me more than an inert multi-layered plinth with clever close arrangements like that of a fine watch. The Ayre DPS is truly a thing of beauty, both in terms of what you can and can't see, a composite of different materials. It's one thing to have a large, sturdy plinth to draw in all that energy; it's another thing to find a way to channel that energy and send it away. When you look at the Spiral Groove turntables, they honestly seem quite understated and maybe even a little "boring" compared to the fanciful alternatives. If I were to buy a super high-end turntable right now though, the Spiral Grooves would be at the top of my list: they're simply some of the most inert, most elegant, most straightforward, and quietest turntables I've ever encountered at any price. They run more smoothly than just about anything out there.

The Thales TTT looks to be another turntable along those lines. I practically drool when I see pictures of it.

I'm also curious about using batteries to power turntables. Perhaps it seems like a gimmick, but if you live in an area with dirty, unreliable power like I do, having an "off the grid" source is quite appealing. It might make for more consistent performance. The Thales TTT appears to use batteries as does the relatively overlooked line of Amazon Audio turntables. The Amazon Referenz is another turntable whose design really speaks to me: a solid, multi-level plinth with energy management via its design, clever suspension, and a substantial platter with seemingly well-implemented bearing.

What's the proper order of importance: table -> tonearm -> cart, or cart -> tonearm -> table? Honestly, I think both are misguided. The best answer to me lies in viewing the entire setup as a singular entity, a record player. It's all in the synergy, and the best table is going to fall flat if the arm sucks and visa versa. That's why I'm increasingly sold on the idea of manufacturers heavily investing themselves in designing both the table and the arm together as a unit. Really, I wouldn't want to pair a Well Tempered Labs table with anything other than their goofy gold ball tonearm or the Dynavector DV500 for which they were also made.

Of course, trying out a second tonearm and cartridge on the same table can be a lot of fun.

On that note, I was impressed by the included arms on the Well Tempered Labs (love love love that golf ball design LOL), Nottingham Analogue, and especially the Funk Firm Sapphire II. That Funk Firm F.X ---F Dot Cross---was just awesome and chewed up most of the competition. On the high end, the Durand arms impressed me most. They are true works of art. The Centroid arm from Spiral Groove was also mighty fine. The SME arm on the VPI HR-X had good synergy with that table, though I'm curious to try VPI's new 3D printed arm.

Cartridges? The ZYX UNIverse II remains the best cartridge I've ever heard, a definite step up from the original UNIverse which was a bit thin sounding at times. It just sounded the most effortless, the most tonally correct, and did an excellent job moving out of the way so to speak. The Lyra carts are pretty much great across the range. The Miyajima I heard was very seductive (can't remember the exact model name), while the Shelter Harmony seemed more transparent. I also remember liking the Van den Hul Frog quite a bit, though I can't remember many specifics --- which might be a good thing. I do remember it was bright green though.

I need more phono stage experience, but two of my favorite "reasonable" options are the Dynavector and the Manley Chinook. My favorite not-so-reasonable phono-pre was the Doshi Alaap by a considerable margin. Understated to look at certainly, but quality built and top notch components and an overall feeling of quality through and through.

A few other errant notes:

The Clearaudio Innovation is a definite improvement over all the "lesser" models. I've always felt Clearaudio tables to sound too dry and analytical, lacking a satisfying sense of depth. Ever since they started putting that bullet proof limousine wood into them however, they've gained a much more natural sound. I think the Compact Innovation is an example of a skeletal table done right. Once you put them on that huge reference stand though they become repulsive.

Direct drive is once again becoming a trend of sorts, as an improvement in motor technology makes it much more appealing in theory. Ultimately I think it comes down to implementation. I'm sounding like a broken record huh? The VPI Classic Direct Drive model for $20k doesn't interest me at all, but I am quite curious about the Brinkmann Bardo. It's one of the most minimalist, stripped down tables I've seen thus far, and it's pulled off very elegantly.

The Full Circle from Wilson Benesch is another super minimalist design that still looks great, and it's one that performs well with its included single piece carbon fibre tonearm.

Say what you will about the Linn Sondek LP-12 being past its prime and a flawed design, but I think it still sounds good. When it's fully upgraded, I'd even say it's competitive in its class. Really, I think there's value in "historical" products, and I don't think it's problematic to continue to recommend them to people, because people have a natural propensity toward archeology. I say that with the utmost respect too. I don't find artifacts "dead" but actually quite alive and relevant in their own way. The Linn, as a cultural artifact, still has something to tell us I think. It also still plays records well and looks damned fine doing it. Honestly, the Linn is an example of a product that manages to transcend its own limitations and still work well despite definite flaws. It's a product whose execution was so well done and "soul" (for lack of a better word) was so apparent for some, that it ended up having staying power when its competitors---often those with better designs---failed to leave much of a mark.

I'm a linear-tracking tonearm diehard and for the past several years use the Goldmund Studio turntable with T-3F. I like the consistent sound quality they provide from start to finish without the inner groove distortion and edginess from pivoted tonearms, which I've used earlier including the Alphason Xenon MCS, Rega RB300, Graham 1.5T, and SME V. For linear trackers I've owned the Rabco SL-8E, Souther Triquartz, various Airtangents, and have also experience with the Versa Dynamics 2.0 and Forsell turntable.

The Thales is an interesting tonearm and I was eager to see it in person at CES a few years ago. When you touch the cartridge area, it moves easily in directions it shouldn't. While the idea is intriguing, I think it practice it will be incredibly difficult to make those extra bearing joints rigid. A frequency sweep of the tonearm like how Hi-Fi Choice and HFNRR used to do in the UK will expose these weaknesses.

For a great sounding low-mass turntable, look into the old Voyds with their 3 motors. Their only drawback is they can only work with pivoted arms because of their low sprung mass versus the moving center of gravity for a linear tracker.

Now back to work on the phono stage.

If I were to start all over I'd probably go with a linear tracker as well.  Actually, probably one of the automated LTs.