Topic: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa (Read 1473 times)

shipsupt · « **Reply #40 on:** May 22, 2014, 01:48:35 PM »

Quote from: Anaxilus on May 22, 2014, 06:57:51 AM

I know ship is a big 009 fan but he may have had to abandon it while working on the road. I think Tari still has/likes the 007 but uses the HP1 the most. Romy might have a couple dozen Stax buried in a closet somewhere?

I really dig the 009 but it's not my favorite stat. IMHO, it's a great headphone, but Like EVERY headphone I've ever heard, it's got it's problems. And I'm OK with that.

Here is, more or less, where I am on the headphone journey...

I made the move seriously towards stats about a year and a half ago, hell it might have been a little longer. I had made a run through quite a few dynamics and orthodynamics before that. I was ready for a change. I sold most of my dynamics. At the time it was also about simplifying things, but it went horribly wrong! I ended up building up a much larger collection of stats (headphones and amps) than I had previously had with dynamics. I like music a lot, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit to liking gear as well. It's part of this hobby for me. So the stat collection was as much about learning about what each different model sounds like as it was just plain fun for me. I don't want to put up a big gear list, but lets say that I currently own a fair collection of pro-bias stats (and amps). The only real exception is the HE-90 which I've only heard, never owned.

That's a rather long winded way of saying that I make my own impressions of this stuff by extensively listening to the gear I own.

Today my two favorites are the original Omega and the "impossible" Jade. The former is a wonderful, but also slightly flawed headphone. It's becoming as rare of hens teeth with original drivers, so I have to admit I always worry a little when I handle and listen to them; which I do regularly because headphones are for listening!! For the money they are not going to get replaced if anything ever happens to them.

The later shouldn't sound as good as it does, it's "impossible"; by all reports most samples are horrible! But this slightly modified Jade has some sort of crazy ju ju (Chalk it up to a happy mistake driven crap QA/QC) that makes it wonderful to listen to. Check out the measurements here on Changstar. The build quality is so poor that I'm convinced they are just going to fall apart in my hands some day, but in the mean time I love 'em.

Also high on my list are the Jecklin Floats. Romy and I don't talk about them much publicly as we're sure to be put in straight jackets and locked up for heresy, but they are damned good!

I expect the 007 to get re-evaluated later this summer when the BHSE arrives. That said, I always wonder why it's so maligned... it's a another damned good headphone.

I listen to a variety of stats at work daily, from Lambdas to Sigmas, from 4070's to in-ears, ESP-950's and modified King Sounds.

When I travel I almost always take the 002's with me for use in the hotel and remote offices but for actual travel I use UE (UERM and UE11) customs and a variety of amps, DACs, and players.

So yeah, I'm pretty much into stats now days.

I've slowly bought back a few dynamics. I don't plan to gather (m)any more. For now the HD-800, LCD-3, AKG-K-1000, Paradox, and Slant are more than enough. There are many reasons I like having these headphones around, but one major reason is so that I have dynamics for headphone amp s I am building and want to build.

I have a plan to thin things out and explore some speakers when I return the USA, but who knows? I am happy I went down this road. It's been fun and I think I've got great sounding gear to enjoy my music with. I can say that I haven't thought about new gear or lusted for something more/different in a long while now. Does that mean I'm "done"? Doubt it, I like "gear" too much!

I'm happy to discuss and answer any questions about stats and the gear I own. I'm not interested in trying to convince anyone to listen to any particular headphone and I can't be arsed with justifying my choice of gear.

Marvey · « **Reply #41 on:** May 22, 2014, 04:33:52 PM »

LOL, I forgot I sold you the Jades. Those were such pieces of shit in terms of construction, but after the mods, were the closet thing to an Orpheus in terms of sound. All the Jade samples do sound the same (I've heard three) and are very good after mods, but this particular pair did not buzz.

I don't think I mentioned to you that I had to shoehorn oversized screws into the fragile assembly to keep it from falling apart. If you have time, you should take pix and post them here.

The only concern I have with the new Jades / Jade II / or whatever HFM is going to call them (I hope HFM isn't pissed at me for calling them "Jade II", but we dont' exactly have an official codename to go by as of this moment) is that they will be voiced like the original stock Jades instead of these modded ones.

Anaxilus · « **Reply #42 on:** May 22, 2014, 05:00:46 PM »

The 560 should be a good indicator Fang is capable of voicing a phone. The question is whether he can translate it over to a new stat.

CEE TEE · « **Reply #43 on:** May 22, 2014, 05:21:22 PM »

If I can finally finish making the case for the KGSSHV, ship is helping me build one. He's trying to suck me into stats.

n3rdling sent all of us on crazy runs after driving up to the first meet I threw in 2011. I'm convinced this crazy train is because of him.

But- the $ amount of the TOTL stat rigs still seems big even though my dynamic stash still cost cash.

I'll have my time with stats soon, I need some phones that will sound good with the KGSSHV though.

Ha, ship! The Original Omegas (thought about buying them a couple of times) and the modded Jades are my favorites.

Modded Jades on the prototype Electra were totally sweet-sounding, just a great balance of everything. Sadly, those two pairs are not available. Glad ship has them though! If I could get those easily, I might be stats or have at least a rig already. Or, if the production Electras sounded like the prototype Electra, I might have a KOSS ESP950/Electra Rig.

As it is, I've had to wrangle the heck out of the HD800 but can now make them sound good with any music that I throw at them and vary the sound as I wish.

For the KGSSHV:

I wonder if HE60 may be good. (Have heard varying reports of shrillness on some pairs- is that due to needing pads or "adjustments"?)

Also wonder if the 007 Mk. I will be to my liking with KGSSHV. (I just heard the Mk. II on the KGSSHV and didn't quite like the tonal balance.)

Hope that the "not Jade II but the new model that comes out after the Jades and does not have a damn name yet" sounds good and can take some mods. That just might pull people over.

Hear that the Lambda Pro is prolly the best value/sound in statland. Think I will give that a whirl too!

blue · « **Reply #44 on:** May 22, 2014, 06:47:32 PM »

Whoa a stax thread on Chang? These totally do not sound manly enough for pirates.

@CT

The KGSSHV can be tweaked to suit many tastes, but I don't think it can ever suit the 009s. For that I think modding the circuit would be required. I hated the stock KGSSHV sound, but after hearing different "versions" a friend has been putting out I'm really digging this amp. After all it's already sublime on the technicalities, it just needs a little flavor.

As for the HE60s, one variation of the KGSSHV in particular drove the HE60's so well it made me view them in a different light. It's comparable to when I plugged the 007/Omega into the BHSE for the first time (btw you're in for a treat ship

). There are still some spikes in the treble but they are much more tamed compared to before. Depth and clarity were both improved by a large margin, and the bass had a lot more weight and authority, but most importantly the grainy mids that I felt these had (compared with top Staxs) was fixed. Now they are my top cans for female vocals, right after the Omega + BHSE.

Not bad considering before I viewed these as an improved stat version of the HD650 in terms of sound signature (with the added bonus of causing hearing loss).

n3rdling · « **Reply #45 on:** May 22, 2014, 09:54:54 PM »

CT: How close are you to finishing your amp chassis design? I know you were learning SolidWorks...are you gonna do any 3D stuff on the faceplate? For my Megatron I'm leaning heavily towards using a non-metal chassis to make something more unique. If it ends up picking up too much external noise (not shielded) then I'll just use the aluminum chassis I got from taobao. I'm thinking of either an acrylic chassis or making lithophanes out of the panels, lit up with LED strips. I think it will look pretty cool in the dark.

Regarding the HE60, I'm pretty sure most of the bad reviews are from sets with broken o-rings. I've posted about this before, but basically the broken o-rings cause a loss of seal, which causes severe bass roll off and thus a kind of strained sound signature. A functional set should sound a lot like a clearer HD600. Build quality seems kinda cheap but most replacement parts aren't unreasonably expensive.

blue: What kind of mods did he make to the HV? Actual circuit changes or specific parts? I've heard a few different HVs and I think they may have sounded a bit different from one another. I remember hearing an offboard HV/007 rig that had pretty insane bass, too much for my liking. Another HV made the ESP950 sound better than I've ever heard it, with a much larger soundstage than stock.

CEE TEE · « **Reply #46 on:** May 22, 2014, 10:23:07 PM »

Thank you, blue and n3rdling!

This attention will help me get off my butt to contact the case manufacturer for specs and order the case. Yep, just need to revise my design for the curved faceplate I was working on and got 3D prints of. Need to resize for the case I am attaching to and cut the right spots for fixtures. And then run by CNC operator for manufacturability check.

The 3D prints were useful (especially the one at 1:1 scale) for showing me that my curves were a bit too dramatic and I am going to sculpt them to have the bit of "plateau" on the face with more flat vertical area that I had in one version but was having trouble reproducing when I lost the file. Complex curves that vary challenge the tool (it's tricky to place the anchor points well) and don't easily make the transitions that I am trying for. Good applied practice though- all the rudimentary shapes/faces are easy once you have run through exercises or solved problems along the way...

n3rdling, may I also propose that you could also make your own faceplate to start, retain the flexibility of using any bit of the aluminum chassis that you already have? Then you benefit from the partial shielding, there is a clear spec to build the faceplate and prosepective custom body to...low risk? That's how I am starting. Then maybe some small amp full cases...for an O2 or something.

HE-60 O-rings, that's right! I knew it was something like that. I'll have to give a properly-functioning pair a shot, thank you!

Nice to know that the KGSSHV is a platform for a bit of possible tuning...will research later if there is a direction that I need to go. Have been concerned about TOTL solid state amps since it has been helpful to dial in tube amps to source and phones. [/size][size=78%] [/size]

anetode · « **Reply #47 on:** May 25, 2014, 04:53:15 AM »

Quote from: firev1 on May 21, 2014, 12:35:31 PM

Had a little of exp with 2 SR-009 rigs, 1 with a Cary Signature and the Woo tranny and another with the Woo amp.

At the risk of sounding like a perv, I've always wanted to try out a Woo tranny. The simplicity of using a transformer box and having every transducer tie into one amp appeals to me, which is why I'm still kind of eying the Rag.

Quote from: N on May 21, 2014, 01:01:07 PM

I'm not sure if my opinion of the SR-Omega being the most revealing transducer I've encountered is due to that actually being the case or due to its ability to resolve without any grain, etch, or other treble undesirables. I hope it's the former as I readily identified the HE60 as a notch below the HD 800 in resolving capability (although the HE60 "sounded" faster and cleaner).

I also thought my HE60s and SR-307s had aight bass that lacked impact and extension, but I feel that my Omegas have super-duper bass all around. The Omega do have the largest transducer of any Stax ever made IIRC (~90mm diameter) so maybe that counts for something. I haven't compared them closely enough against the SR-009 though.

The original Omegas have arguably the best balance of all Stax headphones. They don't sound laid back like the 007s and they don't sound as precarious as the 009s.

I love the x07 Lambdas, that upper bass bump and greater detail extraction due to the diaphragm change makes them a step above the x04s.

Quote from: marvey on May 21, 2014, 04:11:54 PM

Yes, there's a certain weight or tactile feel the HD800 has that the STAX do not have. Not necessarily talking about bass impact, but rather tactility throughout the mids and the highs. This "etherealness" nonsense seems to be an issue which plagues STAX and not some of the other electrostatic headphones. The Orpheus and Jade had a certain tactile feel in from the mids on up which the STAX also did not possess.

BTW, I also felt the Orpheus and Jade were more resolving, better at extracting microdetail and especially better at microdynamic rendering, with the 009 sort of blacking out of dropping low level information. (Anax and I also directly compared BA/HD800 and T2DIY/009 - tonality, bass impact differences, overall presentation differences aside, the HD800 rig was better at microdetail extraction and microdynamic rendering, the 009 rig was less veiled and faster.) The 009 is still king of clarity.

In the end, I felt the electrostatic stuff was too niche, too screwball of a technology, too limited with good amp choices, too vintage (Senn Orpheus), too craptastic customer service (STAX) for me to stick with. If Senn had brought back the Orpheus, it would have been a different story for me.

I've listened to the 009s and the HD800s back to back a few times now and aside from the drastic change in presentation both are such detail monsters that I think it is irrelevant to judge the winner. While all staxen have that 50-60hz roll-off the Omegas still resolve all the way to the rumble. As far as artificiality goes I've been bothered by the diffusivity of the HD800s at times.

Quote from: N on May 21, 2014, 06:12:01 PM

It's a shame that the small size and cult-ish status of the Stax market lead a considerable proportion of outsiders to regard them as some sort of "holy grail."

Hey, it's not the market's fault that esoterica comes off as cool.

Quote from: marvey on May 22, 2014, 01:34:51 AM

But you never know. We didn't talk about DACs much until Anathallo started the "Not a lot of DAC talk thread in here". Now that DAC thread is the largest on this site. So maybe, just maybe 'tode had something in mind when he started this thread.

Yeah, I figured the accelerant would burn off quick enough and then we can keep the flame controlled and go back to the campfire tales.

Quote from: gurubhai on May 22, 2014, 04:23:55 AM

I am curious how many pirates own a stat rig and are actually using it?

I definitely am. Could you please share some of your planar knowledge on the thread, I'm eager to learn of the factors contributing to etheriality.

Quote from: Out Of Your Head on May 22, 2014, 04:44:00 AM

With regard to other amps, hopefully the Vostok Sound electrostatic amps will find a few buyers once the final version is available. Based on all the "Stax Mafia" comments, maybe it's foolish to try to build, market, and sell a new electrostatic amp.

Healthy competition is never foolish.

Quote from: shipsupt on May 22, 2014, 01:48:35 PM

Also high on my list are the Jecklin Floats. Romy and I don't talk about them much publicly as we're sure to be put in straight jackets and locked up for heresy, but they are damned good!

Yes, please tell. I have some ingrained aversion to the products of research by old mad German scientists. If the Floats have a one up in a couple of categories I will probably try them out.

Warren would be proud of this post.

gurubhai · « **Reply #48 on:** May 25, 2014, 08:34:03 AM »

Quote from: anetode on May 25, 2014, 04:53:15 AM

I'm eager to learn of the factors contributing to etheriality

TBH, I don't have much experience with stats but I have come across this 'ethereal' kind of sound a few times while tweaking my orthos.

The two factors which seem to be associated with this are
1) Rolled off sub-bass
2) Shorter decay than natural

A combination of these two things leads to an ethereal/weightless kind of presentation also characterized by :

a)Excessively clean sound - mainly because of lack of bass and harmonics.
b)Excellent imaging and separation : My experience has been that presence of even excellent bass has a tendency to affect the instrument separation,the shorter decay also tends to cause the images to appear sharper.
c)Timbre issues esp. with accoustic instruments probably again because of the decay and lack of harmonics
d)Microdynamics seem to be esp. affected and it sounds a little bit compressed in that regard.(probably my main issue with this sort of presentation)
e) Low level information/ resolution - This one is interesting because on one hand these headphones sound very clean and have great imaging/separation which gives the impression of increased resolution. On the other hand, they have trouble with microdynamics, timbre issues and a short decay which affects the overall realism of the presentation. I expect people with differing priorities to have different opinions regarding this.
f) Vocals esp. male lacking body/reverb.

In my case, the effect was caused when a bass-light ortho was damped slightly more than what I would call 'critical damping'. I went on to 'fix' this by improving the bass and by reducing the damping slightly.

Ofcourse, most staxens hardly use any damping nowadays but they also have diaphragms that are extremely thin and would probably be affected by even a tiny bit of damping ( which may be caused by the foam at the back, the closed volume towards ear, the cups etc) and it may be possible that they are over-damped a bit.

Sholay · « **Reply #49 on:** May 25, 2014, 01:14:44 PM »

Quote from: gurubhai on May 25, 2014, 08:34:03 AM

d)Microdynamics seem to be esp. affected and it sounds a little bit compressed in that regard.(probably my main issue with this sort of presentation)

Very true. While my earlier setup always had a lean/compressed sound that i attributed to my Yamaha HP1. With the new setup the sound is much fuller. And the most noticeable difference is in microdynamics; details are way more clear and available.

Author Topic: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa (Read 1473 times)

shipsupt

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

Marvey

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Anaxilus

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

CEE TEE

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

blue

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

n3rdling

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

CEE TEE

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

anetode

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

gurubhai

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

Sholay

Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa

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Author Topic: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa (Read 1473 times)