there's a certain effortlessness and openness that the STAX exhibit that very few headphones of other driver types exhibit, which is why I feel I love my STAX so much.

I can totally understand this, I just don't like the notion this is somehow uber transparent, the last word in detail, the pinnacle of sound, or 'superior' to other alternatives.  The most 'stat' ethereal sounding rig I've heard is a Sanders speaker rig which sounds absolutely unnatural but utterly seductive, engaging and intriguing to me.  Very precise 3D images that are somehow hollow.  Listening to it is as if Monet is painting musical soundscapes in the air around me.  If I had the money and room I'd pick up a set.  However, I wouldn't run around telling everyone who doesn't have Sanders speakers that their speakers are sh1t or technically 'wrong' like some Stax fascists do.  The problem is I don't find real instruments to be effortless.  They have weight, pluck, bang, snap, sibilance, shrieking, all sorts of stuff that seems to get lost a bit. To me, real music has a force and presence behind it. I once heard a Stax fan call that sort of sound dynamic driver "compression" lol.

Heh, just realized I was writing some notes down with an Edifier pen before posting this.  Does that make me a Stax fanboy? 

Quote from: mechgamer123 on May 21, 2014, 06:23:44 AM

there's a certain effortlessness and openness that the STAX exhibit that very few headphones of other driver types exhibit, which is why I feel I love my STAX so much.

I can totally understand this, I just don't like the notion this is somehow uber transparent, the last word in detail, the pinnacle of sound, or 'superior' to other alternatives.  The most 'stat' ethereal sounding rig I've heard is a Sanders speaker rig which sounds absolutely unnatural but utterly seductive, engaging and intriguing to me.  Very precise 3D images that are somehow hollow.  Listening to it is as if Monet is painting musical soundscapes in the air around me.  If I had the money and room I'd pick up a set.  However, I wouldn't run around telling everyone who doesn't have Sanders speakers that their speakers are sh1t or technically 'wrong' like some Stax fascists do.  The problem is I don't find real instruments to be effortless.  They have weight, pluck, bang, snap, sibilance, shrieking, all sorts of stuff that seems to get lost a bit. To me, real music has a force and presence behind it. I once heard a Stax fan call that sort of sound dynamic driver "compression" lol.

Heh, just realized I was writing some notes down with an Edifier pen before posting this.  Does that make me a Stax fanboy? 

Hmm, sorry if my writeup came off as making it sound like 'stats were the end-all things, because I don't think they are either. They sound a little bit ethereal to me as well, but compared to the Sony MDR-SA5000, pretty much the only headphone I've heard that has a bit of the same "effortlessness" in the treble if you will, sounds much more ethereal to me than the stats, by a long shot. I don't wanna derail the thread and take it into a debate about that headphone though, so I'll shut up.
I get what you mean though. I get the feeling there's a certain "organic-ness" missing from the 'stats that's very present in something like the HD650.

Quote from: mechgamer123 on May 21, 2014, 06:23:44 AM

Did they just strap some lambda drivers in a different enclosure and put some damping around your ear though?

Yes, pretty much.  The normal bias Sigma uses normal bias SR-Lambda drivers and the Sigma Pro uses SR-Lambda Signature drivers.

Hmm, seems like you could 3D print some cups for a pair of lambda drivers to make a clone of the Sigma for significantly less than the actual price of a sigma then... (writes down that idea for when I get a spare pair of lambda drivers)

Just wanted to add one more criticism to the Lambdas, and that is it seems like even though my 202s are the darkest lambdas I've heard, there ca n still be a bit of harshness on poorly recorded electronic tracks and whatnot. I think that out of all the headphones I own (and quite a few that I've tried) I prefer the lambdas for piano recordings and a lot of the Japanese video game OSTs I listen to. They sound a bit too ethereal for rock tracks, but I still enjoy them there nonetheless... (shrug)

Had a little of exp with 2 SR-009 rigs, 1 with a Cary Signature and the Woo tranny and another with the Woo amp. I really love the lower mids of the electric guitar in various rock/metal music and the weight that comes with the HD800 just can't be found on the 009 rigs I tried. Same experience with Anax really. I would love to get an 4170 system, pretty much a dream for me at this point of time. I do see the appeal with Staxen though but its just not for me.

If you're serious about 3D printing Sigma cups, I think jaycalgary listed the measurements he took of his set when he made his own Sigma cups.  There's a thread on HF somewhere. 

As for not highlighting poor recordings, you'll probably have to find a headphone with some recession in the lower treble.  The SR-007 and Sigma come to mind as Stax headphones that are more forgiving of poorly mastered records.

Whoa, someone has seriously already done it?
I'm serious, but it will probably be a while before I invest in a pair of lambda drivers to mess around with.

I heard the 007Mk1 recently at the Seattle meet, but on the Cavalli Liquid Lightning (which also had a 009 connected to it), and the owner told me he had some very warm sounding tubes to try and "warm up" that 009, so I felt the 007 was a bit too warm sounding. Guess I should have asked him to let me try it with my solid state 212 amp instead.

There was another 009 at the meet as well, being driven by a KGSSHV and some expensive looking Oppo DAC, but I think pretty much everyone who heard it (including me) came away unimpressed. The KGSSHV sounded really warm, but not warm in a good way, warm as in the top end sounded rolled off and the whole experience was just "meh"; I honestly felt my 202/212 sounded just about as good versus the KGSSHV/009 combo, that's how bad it sounded. Can anyone else verify this, or could it have been something else that was wrong with the system, like an improperly built KGSSHV or something?

Hmm, sorry if my writeup came off as making it sound like 'stats were the end-all things, because I don't think they are either. They sound a little bit ethereal to me as well, but compared to the Sony MDR-SA5000, pretty much the only headphone I've heard that has a bit of the same "effortlessness" in the treble if you will, sounds much more ethereal to me than the stats, by a long shot.

LOL, I think I understand what you talking about in reference to the SA-5000. Not the best quality treble, not as fast or smooth, but the effortless presentation is similar to STAX.

Had a little of exp with 2 SR-009 rigs, 1 with a Cary Signature and the Woo tranny and another with the Woo amp. I really love the lower mids of the electric guitar in various rock/metal music and the weight that comes with the HD800 just can't be found on the 009 rigs I tried.

Yes, there's a certain weight or tactile feel the HD800 has that the STAX do not have. Not necessarily talking about bass impact, but rather tactility throughout the mids and the highs. This "etherealness" nonsense seems to be an issue which plagues STAX and not some of the other electrostatic headphones. The Orpheus and Jade had a certain tactile feel in from the mids on up which the STAX also did not possess.

BTW, I also felt the Orpheus and Jade were more resolving, better at extracting microdetail and especially better at microdynamic rendering, with the 009 sort of blacking out of dropping low level information. (Anax and I also directly compared BA/HD800 and T2DIY/009 - tonality, bass impact differences, overall presentation differences aside, the HD800 rig was better at microdetail extraction and microdynamic rendering, the 009 rig was less veiled and faster.) The 009 is still king of clarity.

I remain curious what a well designed DHT SET amp (instead of the push-pull or DIY commercial hybrid/SS offerings) for electrostatic headphones could do. This is probably the only way to level the playing field. I still remember Frank Cooter's SET amp with the blue mercury PS tubes. Even though Frank was running SR507 (screwy FR), it was by far the most "involving" stat rig I had ever heard on the same league of n3rdling's Orpheus.

In the end, I felt the electrostatic stuff was too niche, too screwball of a technology, too limited with good amp choices, too vintage (Senn Orpheus), too craptastic customer service (STAX) for me to stick with. If Senn had brought back the Orpheus, it would have been a different story for me.