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Author Topic: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa  (Read 1471 times)

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anetode

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Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« on: May 21, 2014, 01:20:06 AM »

Didn't that magazine cover always make you a little uneasy? I mean, I get the punk swagger, but what sort of lit up disco chick would get into fights while wearing stax sigmas. Or is it that she was punched because she was wearing two transistor radios strapped to hear head with a wire leading down to a brick-sized battery? Or maybe it's some sort of asian fetish to bedeck abused caucasian prostitutes with hifi gear? Googleli would vouch for the latter, so that is why I decided to add a patch to help the unfortunate woman with her periorbital hyphema.

Oh yeah, Stax.

Stax headphones: some people like them, others are degenerate philistines. Let's enlighten those poor unfortunate souls with the grandeur of Stax's cutting edge industrial design and on-the-go practicality.

One of the things that has always bugged me is that when changing from a dynamic to an electrostat your brain takes a second to readjust to what seems like a floaty ethereal presentation. There isn't the same lag as with most dynamics, this is what I think is often referred to as speed. It might be a function of the stat's sharper impulse response or diaphragm resonance characteristics combined with very low harmonic distortion and a relatively large radiating area.

What I've noticed is that with stats with increasingly thicker diaphragms, (>1.5 microns, sometimes approaching ortho girth) the efficiency drops and the sound takes on a more tangible depth, the bass notes linger maybe a bit longer and seem to hit harder. Of course the trend has been to switch to advanced materials and reaally thin diaphragms (.5 micron) and switching to higher voltages and greater radiating area.

This is a thread meant to collect listener experiences with specific stat models and a bit of bullshitting about theory and application. I'd definitely like to learn more than the embarrassingly small amount of knowledge I possess regarding the engineering of stats and stat amps. This of course is balanced by the embarrassingly large amount of knowledge about specific models I've scraped from head-fi-case and wikiphonia. Maybe next time I'm at a meet I'll be able to play the expert and give a precise answer to a listener's technical question about the 007's impedance ("um, it changes with frequency I think? yes there's impedance").
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 05:11:13 AM by anetode »
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ultrabike

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Re: Stax: pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2014, 01:49:04 AM »
Welph, my experience with them Staxes has been limited to some few Lambdas (407 & 20x where x = something), and the venerable 007s and 009s. Did not have any of these for months and years though, so that's that. I thought they sounded sort of U-shaped in general, but w/o the expected bass impact or Beyer-brightness if that make sense. Perhaps that's what "ethereal" sound is all about.This I felt on all of the ones I heard, with some differences here and there in the presentation depending on the model.

The ESP950 was a significant departure from the Staxes IMO tho. Did not feel the pseudo U-shape or ethereal whatever response. On the other hand, going by memory, it sounded fairly laid back. More so than the Staxes. Maybe at some point I'll give them another listen to form a better opinion on them. I do like laid back sound sometimes.

... and yes. The unique Sigma... YMMV, but IMO they SUCK!
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OJneg

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Re: Stax: pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2014, 02:49:46 AM »
SR009 + Cavalli LL is the only Stax experience that made me envy. Everything else I've tried has kinda been meh for me. The lack of impact might be the thing that bothers me most, but I don't have the most electrostat experience compared to fellow pirates.
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N

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Re: Stax: pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2014, 02:59:53 AM »
I perceived the "differences" (not spelling out superiority here) of electrostatics vs. dynamics to be more dramatic than that experienced when upgrading from mid-tier to high-end headphones. My first electrostatic was the HE60 and I consider it to be more of a turning point within my journey than even my first CIEMs (OG JH13s).

I would be very interested to better understand what causes many electrostatics (e.g. Lambdas, Omegas) to sound broadly different from other transducer types at a fundamental level.

The most annoying thing for me has been understanding the amplification behavior of electrostatics, since we need to think differently from the resistive loads we're used to talking about.
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Mr.Sneis

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Re: Stax: pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2014, 03:40:24 AM »
Although I've owned the 007 O2mk1 for many years prior it wasn't really until this year that I really came to appreciate the Stax sound.  I do agree, the ESP950 while an excellent headphone doesn't convey the same house sound as Stax.  Once I got bit by the bug I found it very difficult to switch back to dynamics!

For anyone looking to get started I learned the hard way that the tubed Stax brand amps really are just hybrid designs that compromise in the wrong ways namely is that they are underpowered especially for the more demanding stats, you'll be in a much better starting position to aim for a solid state amp.  Not to say they are horrible or anything but they may not be as versatile when you start experimenting.

The ugly lambda frames are also quite fun sounding if you can get over the look, plastic build, and have the right shaped head.  Like Grado the lower end lambdas are a much better overall value than the more expensive ones - not uncommon that you will find differences in pads and cable rather than differences in drivers.  I came into an old beat up Lambda Nova Signature which really floored me overall.  Although I enjoyed the 407, based on what I have read I don't think any of the modern sets will sound close unfortunately!

Up the ladder I know that one nice thing about the 009 is that they are much easier to amp than the 007's so if you look at it one way the high cost of the 009 can be supplanted by lower cost amps if you are on a limited budget or have a upgrade plan in place.  I still don't know if I would recommend to someone to start at the top though!
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SoupRKnowva

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Re: Stax: pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2014, 03:56:41 AM »
Quote from: OJneg on May 21, 2014, 02:49:46 AM
The lack of impact might be the thing that bothers me most, but I don't have the most electrostat experience compared to fellow pirates.

I felt the same way, first stax I heard were the o2mk1s on a BHSE at canjam 2010 and the lack of impact was a massive deal breaker for me. For too polite/soft I would say. But then several years later I got to hear the 009s for the first time and it was literally love at first listen. And that was on the A-10, which is supposed to be a pretty atrocious Stax amp

I feel you Mr. Sneis, been trying the HD800s in house for quite a while now, and even if there might be a small part of my brain that will admit they might be better at some things, I just don't love them like I do the 009s...that and I don't find them to be nearly as comfortable long term
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Anaxilus

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Re: Stax: pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2014, 04:58:42 AM »
that's always been my thing against the newer Stax.  Lack of bass impact and punch with ethereal notes that don't sound like any music I've ever heard from a musical instrument. I notice the same thing from Saunders, Magnepan and Martin Logan to various degrees but it's always there when I hear it.  I considerate an unnatural coloration that I've been known to call a 'gimmick' from time to time.

Bottom line, if you have to rely on psychoacoustic adjustment to get your brain to adapt to a particular house sound, that sound is just wrong.  It either sounds like a natural instrument or it doesn't.  I have always felt the older Stax and Senns sound more correct than the newer stuff often held up like God's gift to the non hearing impaired.  Ultimately no planar has given  myself that 'there' feeling by stripping every bit of information from a recording and rendering it back as much as  a proper HD800 rig has so far.  If the HD800 were the statue of David, some of the more recent Stax are like a Japanese watercolor painting of David on rice paper.

I think veil on some dynamics and that ethereal sound on many stats are the most off putting things I notice when I try out headphones for the first time. Instant deal breaker for me.

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n3rdling

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Re: Stax: pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2014, 05:27:46 AM »
Regarding the Lambda line: There have been small changes to the stators from gen to gen but they're pretty much identical within the same generation.  In the original Lambda trio, the big differences were thickness of the diaphragm and, obviously, change in bias.  There is a noticeable difference in sound just by changing diaphragm thickness.  Most of the later trios kept the same diaphragms between them but used different pads/cables from one another.  I have a feeling they also either change the tension slightly between models from the same era, or they are pickier about channel matching between drivers.  Former can be measured with a FR plot of the driver alone in open air.

I'm pretty much dedicated to stats as well.  Dynamics all have a grain to them (varying degrees of course) that I find distracting, and that can't be helped with mods or EQ.  My dynamics have either been sold or in their boxes for years.  Downside to Stax is less room to play if you're a tweako, which can be a positive or negative thing depending on your perspective.

I like the Sigma a lot but think there is much room for improvement, especially with better pads.
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Mr.Sneis

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Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 06:14:09 AM »
I know n3rd that you know this already but for the uninitiated a relatively easy and affordable "tweak" is to swap pads across Lambda models as they are all the same overall shape and affixed with double sided adhesive.  I don't think it's discussed too often but I'm with the camp that believes the older thicker pads sound better than the modern pads -- greater distance between ear and speaker.  I first did this with a 407 and somewhat appreciated and regretted the change at the same time.  With the LNS I have now I'm afraid to mess with the older pads and accompanying ear-side foam too much in fear of harming them.
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mechgamer123

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Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2014, 06:23:44 AM »
Copied from a PM:
After talking with a few people around head-fi (one of whom is in a nearby city, who owns 5 STAX headphones and a few different STAX tube amps), I took the plunge on the SR-202s and bought them for ~$300 from Yahoo Auctions on Japan. I had a friend who was in Japan buy some of the real leather pads from the SR-507 to put on my 202s, and I've been completely satisfied with them ever since. Out of all the lambdas that I've heard so far (Airbow modded 507, 404, 207, Lambda Nova Signature and Lambda Signature) the 202 with the 507 pads has been my favorite so far, because they've been the least bright out of the bunch. I think it was the LNS that was the other not very bright one, but the midrange was too harsh for my liking.

Regarding the Sigma, I got the chance to hear the Sigma SB at the above mentioned person's house, and I quite liked its soft yet (relatively) detailed treble, and the bass wasn't actually all that annoying.
Did they just strap some lambda drivers in a different enclosure and put some damping around your ear though?

I really feel it's tough to describe the electrostatic sound. On one hand, I feel that the bass doesn't extend as far as I'd like, and the midrange isn't quite balanced, and the treble can either sound too harsh or too rolled off depending on my mood, but on the other there's a certain effortlessness and openness that the STAX exhibit that very few headphones of other driver types exhibit, which is why I feel I love my STAX so much.
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