CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 09:45:36 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8]

Author Topic: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa  (Read 1471 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ultrabike

  • Burritous Supremus (and Mexican Ewok)
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +4226/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2384
  • I consider myself "normal"
Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2014, 08:31:21 PM »

Perfect transparency is not knowing you are listening to speakers or headphones at all.

That I agree strongly. I think in the previous "THE Show" headphone discussion panel, I heard plenty of times how a particular headphone sounded "crazy good" because it sounded like speakers. That is great (depending on the speakers and room), but I would rather like headphones to sound like a real life venue instead (or as close as possible to it).

It would be nice to hear Nirvana or a Jazz play in their setting, as opposed to a great set of speakers in my bathroom.

Many cues in the FR magnitude can hint some issues, but not all.

The low non linear distortion is pretty much due to the balanced drive and centered film.  The field forces are equal between stators. 

I kinda doubt the "electrostatic sound" is even FR related since you can instantly tell an electrostat apart from a dynamic even though different electrostatic headphones and speaker panels have different FRs.  Maybe somebody with a good PEQ can apply the filters you suggest to a standard dynamic headphone to test your idea.

Planars are going to sound different from dynamics right off the bat just because the wavefront is drastically different.  With orthos and stats the entire active area is radiating sound in a piston-like manner, and this is typically a pretty large surface area.  Stats and orthos differ in their spacer thickness and damping.  The spacer thickness is related to excursion, which is why orthos tend to have much more impact than stats.  Orthos usually use much more damping in order to control the diaphragm and help linearize the FR, but doing so hurts the openness/soundstaging.  I don't like orthos that use lots of damping for this reason...they sound too closed in and too much like headphones if that makes any sense.  I don't like being aware of the driver right next to my ear as it distracts me.  This is what I mean by "driver transparency" from time to time.  Stats also have the advantage of better acoustic transparency between the diaphragm and the ear (thin, uniform open stator vs array of magnets and holsters), though the single ended orthos are now tops in this area.  Single sided electrostats are possible, but I don't think practical...you'd have to find the sweet spot for spacer thickness without a drastic increase in distortion and I don't think anybody has been successful in doing so.

In all fairness, FR measurements depend on coupling among other things so I agree one most not get carried away looking at them. I look at some stuff here and there to try to explain some things, but that doesn't make it the ultimate explanation, or even the correct one.

As far as distortion, I still feel its somewhat related to the tiny excursion. When driving a headphone loud vs moderately the one thing that I find changes the most is non-linear distortion. Driving a headphone loud changes the excursion from tiny, to not so tiny. With stats, probably going for loud still results in relatively tiny excursions relative to other driver technologies.

I also feel that it's a bit difficult to emulate the exact response of a headphone with this or that EQ, even if the problem was only 2 dimensional, which I don't think it is. That said, I know s ome here feel that appropriate application of an equalizer can benefit Stats in general, and I agree with that. It can also make some cans sound close, but not perfectly close. This is probably more true if one is going for critical listening.

Logged

Stapsy

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +21/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 423
  • a real bastid
Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2014, 01:16:10 AM »

n3rdling, the macrodynamics swings were very noticeable for me with the 717/009.  007 sounded much more cohesive as a whole with a better soundstage.  They were a bit too dark for my tastes but it sounds like that has a lot to do with amplifiers.

I think something that often gets overlooked with stats is how damn comfy they are.  It isn't just the weight either.  The pads and headband design are extremely erogonomics.

Logged

Anaxilus

  • Phallus Belligerantus Analmorticus
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +65535/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3493
  • TRS jacks must die
    • The Claw
Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #72 on: May 27, 2014, 02:00:27 AM »

I dunno about that, I think Stax runs a wide gamut of ergonomics.  I personally never liked the fit of the 007.  The pads always seem to be reversed or need to be reversed and the headband I guess needs to be bent to fit your head. Pretty much everytime I put on a 007 it feels like I'm wearing it wrong.  009 works out better for me.  Personally I think an ESP950 design is better than most Stax but they use cheap materials.
Logged
"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

"The Claw is our master. The Claw chooses who will go or who will stay." - The LGM Community

"You're like a dull knife, just ain't cuttin'. Talking loud, saying nothing." - James Brown

gurubhai

  • Ortho Ninja
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +104/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 317
Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2014, 02:49:53 AM »


So here is the question, could you imitate the sound of a 007/009 by overdamping an ortho and articually reducing decay.

I don't think that its possible to imitate the sound of a specific headphone by modification. We can, however imitate the weightless ethereal presentation of stats in orthos by the means of damping. If you could have been here for our last meet a week back, you would have heard it for yourself.


Could this also be the reason why power is important regardless of db attained during playback? Power is necessary to provide the acceleration needed to overcome over damping, thereby improving microdynamics and producing a more natural decay?
Its well known among modders that damping affects the sensitivity of a driver. The more you damp a driver, the less sensitive it becomes. The first generation Hifiman orthos employed a lot of damping and it was one of the reason for them being so challenging a load to drive (The other being their very low impedance). The later Hifiman have avoided damping and that contributes to them being easier to driver than the previous generation.
As for more power improving the microdynamics and decay of a headphone, it just hasn't been my experience. Improved bass and macrodynamics may be, but the best microdynamics/decay I have experienced has been from comparatively flea powered tube amps.

As for weight/comfort of stats, I would agree. My PMB float is by far the most comfortable headphone I have ever placed on this noggin.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 11:26:45 AM by gurubhai »
Logged

dBel84

  • Ortho Ninja
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +86/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 341
Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2014, 02:24:38 AM »

I suspect most stats are more heavily damped than we give them credit for. The dust covers actually do a very fine job of damping. I noticed just how much while playing about with Ship's Kingsound. One of the most appealing stats to me is the sadly forgotten SRX mkIII pro - I have heard a few examples, the modded ones win me over any TOTL sax.

I am not sure if Ship or anyone else who has heard his Kingsounds agrees , but they sound more like orthodynamic than anything else

One more thought - has anyone ever looked at phase shift in stats - perhaps the dust cover causes some degree of phase shiftiness and this messes with the wannabe ethereal acoustic centers in the brain.

A little like the cause of rainbow schizophrenia, there is bound to be some interweb data to support this theory.

Logged

anetode

  • an objectivist trapped in a subjectivist's body
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +178/-7
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2014, 03:30:29 AM »

Logged
Love isn't always on time.

Tachikoma

  • Powder Monkey
  • *
  • Brownie Points: +4/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
Re: Stax: i pirati saccheggiano la nostra cosa
« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2014, 06:46:23 AM »

I think the shape of the diaphragm has an influence on said "etherealness", as the older Staxen (and omegas) have a circular diaphragm as opposed to the rectangular diaphragm in the Lambda line, whose sound I never liked very much despite being more balanced FR wise than the older Staxen. The Sony ECR-800 with its pentagonal driver has a rather different and somewhat meatier sound, even compared to vintage Staxen which had diaphragms of similar thickness (2um).

Rant: God damn Sony and their planned obsolescence. When I got my set, the cable had melted into a plasticine-like goo, and the headband would fall apart just from sitting on my head.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8]