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Author Topic: The Turntable Thread  (Read 45113 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #120 on: March 20, 2014, 06:54:04 PM »

They claim to be exclusively using this tech, but 47 Labs has their Koma turntable which has been out for a while as well. Anyway, I thought the bigger Kronos sounded really good. Very good in fact. Still, there are a few reservations for me. The biggest of which is the price for what is, essentially, a single belt design. Also the new table is shorter and so 12" tonearms can't be used. Granted, I'd probably buy the Sparta with their new 9" Black Beauty tonearm, but still I'd like the option for a longer one. It's the principle of the thing. Also for this kind of money I think it's a bit unfortunately it can't support two tonearms. Oh, and no sensors to monitor the speed.

The price is something like $7k less than the bigger Kronos. Now, if you're already going to be spending $20k on a turntable---plus more for a tonearm and cartridge---spending the extra $7k for the bigger and more sophisticated table seems a bit obvious. Really they should have priced the Sparta at around $12k-15k in my opinion.

That's unfortunate. For that kind of cash I would expect to be able to use 12" arms which I prefer to 10s or 9s. Also, does that mean you might need to throw in a Walker PMC on top?
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MuppetFace

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #121 on: March 20, 2014, 09:49:40 PM »

I have made the plinth and the modifications on the Lenco GL75 myself.  It consists of alternating layers of marine ply and mdf. The top plate was cut and sunk in the plinth. Arm-boards and adjustable legs are custom made from aluminium.

Tonearms in the pictures (on the Lenco) Advanced Analog Mg1 Air Bearing Linear Tracking Tonearm with 
ultra P wand, Linn Ekos Mk1, and (on the Oracle) Rega RB900, static balanced, Van Den Hul Silver rewire, and low center of gravity counterweight.

Wow, I bet that Lenco sounds great. A modified Lenco has one of the best price to performance ratios in my opinion.

That's unfortunate. For that kind of cash I would expect to be able to use 12" arms which I prefer to 10s or 9s. Also, does that mean you might need to throw in a Walker PMC on top?

Yeah, it's disappointing. I prefer 12" tonearms as well.

I still expect it'll sound exceptional with the new 10" edition of the Black Beauty, and I like it when designers engineer the turntable and tonearm together as a whole, but for that kind of dosh there should be more flexibility. I can't help but feel like they could have extended the armboard somehow in the design to allow for longer sizes while keeping the overall shorter length of the table. The more cynical part of me suspects they might have gimped it just to keep the flagship Kronos more attractive. Honestly, who wouldn't spend the extra $7k or so for the bigger model at that level? It would have made so much more sense in my mind to price the Sparta at around $15k instead of $22k.

As for needing a PMC, I'm not sure if the Sparta has no motor feedback or if it just lacks the more sophisticated version in the Kronos with optical sensors. I suspect it might use a somewhat simpler implementation w/o the optical sensors.



Speaking of 12" tonearms, I came across this amazing combo of the Monaco with Tri Planar's 12" arm with what appears to be a special carbon fibre arm tube:



It's sitting on top of Grand Prix's Formula base. Normally I'm not a big fan of carbon fiber, so it's kind of odd I'd totally melt for what amounts to a entire setup bedecked in it, but that's exactly what's happened. What a svelte looking combo.

Though honestly, I'd probably go with a 12" Black Beauty (which sounds quite lewd now that I type it out...).



...or even a DaVinciAudio Labs Master Reference Virtu, also 12" but without the continuity of carbon fibre.



*  *  *  *  *  *  *

Linear trackers still intrigue me. The Bergmann Sindre is a truly exquisite setup, but now Bergmann is selling the version found on the "entry-level" Magne as a standalone.



Its simplicity is very appealing, though if I went that route I'd want to get the matching Bergmann table since it uses the same airbearing ethos for the platter. There's also a new "entry level" linear tracker from Clearaudio, the TT-3, which retails for under $4k USD.



Since I'm a firm believer in synergy, I'd be very tempted to combine it with the Clearaudio Innovation. The TT-3 and Innovation Compact seems like a potentially great setup for under $15k. Which is still a metric f-ton of cash, but not too bad for a complete linear tracking setup with top quality craftsmanship.



*  *  *  *  *  *  *

Something occurred to me the other day. It seems obvious enough, but serviceability and support is an important factor to consider. A lot of these smaller companies for instance have already retired models that came out only a few years ago (and don't even update this on their webpage, which they leave outdated). There's something to be said for a more established brand. That being said, some established brands are pretty crappy WRT customer service, and I was really impressed by how accessible some of these 'smaller guys' were. Merrill-Williams, Dr. Feickert, Kronos, Spiral Grooves, Basis, Oswald's Mill Audio, and Grand Prix all respond promptly.
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MuppetFace

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #122 on: March 22, 2014, 11:54:32 AM »

Just wanted to take a moment to plug what is in my opinion one of the best turntables you can buy for under $10k.

http://www.realturntable.com/



No, it's not pretty. However George Merrill is one of the true luminaries in turntable design. Previously he designed the Merrill Heirloom, a brilliant deck that he continued to refine over the years until it reached its ultimate form in the $25k Merrill-Scillia which has been described by many as one of the best turntables of all time.

For his latest endeavor, George went back to the drawing board so to speak and designed a new deck by scratch. It uses a specially developed rubber laminate compound in the plinth as well as chambers and dampener feet to render it inert. There's a stope included to constantly monitor the table's speed as well. He says this table is, in many ways, better than the Merrill-Scillia.

Now it's getting upgraded to version 101.2. Changes include an all-black aesthetic due to a different material used in the top and bottom plates, as well as support for a wider array of tonearms.

Really looking forward to trying the updated version.
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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #123 on: April 04, 2014, 03:37:34 PM »


So...




Listened to the Rega RP10 with their new ceramic platter and new RB2000 tonearm equipped with an Apheta cartridge. I was pretty damn impressed by what I heard. In fact, if I had $7k to spend on an entire turntable package (deck, tonearm, and cart) this would definitely be at the top of my list along with the Well Tempered Labs Amadeus GTA and a cart like the Shelter 901 or Miyajima Shilabe.

I've always been fond of higher end Rega decks however, having had a P7 that I traded up for a P9. They're extremely low hassle, easy to use and maintain. Which is something you shouldn't underestimate --- so many people don't even have their expensive turntables dialed in correctly! Owned a Rega comes with piece of mind, as you never have to worry about a lack of support or the availability of parts. And honestly, when it comes to single belt drive, I think Rega are on to something with their low mass approach.

*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

In other news, I'm really interested in VPI's new Direct Drive Classic. I'm not surprised this model is their new top-of-the-line offering, given my experience with direct drive in the past. Also they have a new 3D printed tonearm that looks neat.



In addition, VPI offer a rim drive upgrade to their HR-X model that was already pretty great in my opinion. Would be really interesting to compare the rim drive HR-X with the Direct Drive Classic.



Speaking of rim drive, Origin Live!'s new flagship models---Venturer and Voyager---use this method to spin their platters. Can't wait to try either. They're both supposed to be the same, just different aesthetic options.



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DaveBSC

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #124 on: April 04, 2014, 07:39:15 PM »

Listened to the Rega RP10 with their new ceramic platter and new RB2000 tonearm equipped with an Apheta cartridge. I was pretty damn impressed by what I heard. In fact, if I had $7k to spend on an entire turntable package (deck, tonearm, and cart) this would definitely be at the top of my list along with the Well Tempered Labs Amadeus GTA and a cart like the Shelter 901 or Miyajima Shilabe.

I've always been fond of higher end Rega decks however, having had a P7 that I traded up for a P9. They're extremely low hassle, easy to use and maintain. Which is something you shouldn't underestimate --- so many people don't even have their expensive turntables dialed in correctly! Owned a Rega comes with piece of mind, as you never have to worry about a lack of support or the availability of parts. And honestly, when it comes to single belt drive, I think Rega are on to something with their low mass approach.

Speaking of rim drive, Origin Live!'s new flagship models---Venturer and Voyager---use this method to spin their platters. Can't wait to try either. They're both supposed to be the same, just different aesthetic options.


I know you like Regas, but I'm still surprised you've found the all Rega/Apheta combo to be up there with some of the best from the other guys. Or... did you just like it for what it costs? I understand the value quotient with with the lower end Rega tables and Rega arms, no question. However, just as with their electronics, IMO the further up the line you go, the less value you get. IMO the performance simply doesn't keep up with the price. The little Brio-R and DAC aren't too bad, if somewhat overly energetic and forward in that Rega way. More you spend though, the more the competition starts to really hammer Rega, until you get to the Osiris which is stupid expensive and killed by just about everyone else out there who knows what they are doing.

The carts just don't work for me at all, Apheta included. It's not necessarily horrible, but again there's that Rega house sound that's getting in the way, an overly energetic forwardness and even some grain in the upper mid/lower treble region. At least on its own its $1800, and for another $200 you can get a Dynavector XX-2. I know which way I would go. In fact, that's probably where I would've gone had I not been able to get my Shelter 7000 for 50% off.

Please let me know if you get a chance to hear the new O-L tables, I'm really curious about them. I think my Ace Space has the Resolution MK3 beat, but the Venture and Voyager are in a totally different league from even the Sovereign. I assume they are intended to be paired with the Enterprise arm, which is a good one.
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MuppetFace

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #125 on: April 04, 2014, 08:44:14 PM »

I know you like Regas, but I'm still surprised you've found the all Rega/Apheta combo to be up there with some of the best from the other guys. Or... did you just like it for what it costs? I understand the value quotient with with the lower end Rega tables and Rega arms, no question. However, just as with their electronics, IMO the further up the line you go, the less value you get.

Good, I like being surprising from time to time.

The P9 was a jewel of a turntable in my opinion. The RP8 was more a lateral move, but their new RP10 is unquestionably a step up for me and really the best Rega I've heard. Granted, I've experienced the typical criticisms of overly forward sound that lacks body, yes, but that was mainly on systems that were not synergistically favorable to them. The Apheta really needs 50 ohms to sound ideal, and loading it with higher ratings will typically result in that kind of stereotypical "bad Rega sound." Their IOS phono stage is another good product for the money in my opinion, and while it pairs well with a variety of different carts, it has a special setting just for the Apheta.

Really, you'd be surprised just how many people don't have their high end gear dialed in correctly, and I've heard stuff twice as expensive as the RP10 sound twice as bad just because it keeps going out of spec all the time. I find there's a definite appeal to Rega's ease of ownership. Which brings me back to the statement I made: if I had $7k to spend on a vinyl package right now, I'd seriously consider the RP10 + RB2000 + Apheta at the top of my list. Yes, that's given the budget of $7, though I'd still consider it even if I were spending more (just not as strongly the higher up I go; I'm being practical, not delusional).
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 09:15:44 PM by MuppetFace »
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DaveBSC

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #126 on: April 04, 2014, 10:43:53 PM »

Fair enough. Given the same budget, my money would be on the Ace Space 294 combo with either the aforementioned XX-2 or a ZYX R-100, or a discounted Koetsu. A little bit more will get you a Kansui, which is a pretty significant jump up and pretty damn tough to beat short of a Benz S-class, which in turn is almost unbeatable period.

My experience with the Apheta both through transformers and what appeared to be competently configured pres was always less than inspiring.
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anetode

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #127 on: July 14, 2014, 07:07:43 PM »

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MuppetFace

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2014, 03:36:26 AM »

Just want to give a shout out to the Kuzma Stabi SD. It's an incredible turntable. In some ways, I even found it preferable to the Stabi Ref. 2 which costs significantly more and is better than many similar priced turntables IMO. What makes the Stabi SD particularly great is that is can support two 12" tonearms.

That's one thing I really dislike about SME. To even get ONE 12" tonearm on their turntables, you have to pay out the ass.

Having the ability to listen on two different cartridges (especially one mono) is flexibility I will never again forsake.
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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2014, 03:58:41 PM »

Just want to give a shout out to the Kuzma Stabi SD. It's an incredible turntable. In some ways, I even found it preferable to the Stabi Ref. 2 which costs significantly more and is better than many similar priced turntables IMO. What makes the Stabi SD particularly great is that is can support two 12" tonearms.

That's one thing I really dislike about SME. To even get ONE 12" tonearm on their turntables, you have to pay out the ass.

Having the ability to listen on two different cartridges (especially one mono) is flexibility I will never again forsake.

Cool. What are you using to support it? From what I know of the Stabi S at least, you can't even breathe on it unless you've got something VERY solid underneath.
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