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Author Topic: For those who haven't followed this story Jackie Fuchs talks about her rape  (Read 2577 times)

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Anaxilus

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https://www.gunowners.org/wv26.htm

"I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance.

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

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lm4der

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You really are daft. You obviously think the world is better if everyone is a potential rape victim.

It only of interest to nutjobs like you who project their own fear to disarm legal gun owners due to fear of illegal gun users.

Btw, we already have a few gun threads. If you would try reading or searching around you'd know that. Also you wouldn't barge into the shoutbox and links to 'studies' I already linked to and discussed prior. You're just completely out of your depth due to bias.

There is no 'study' possible that would prove an innocent person is better off defenseless against a vicious more powerful and/or armed attacker. Go pull your head out of your ass and play clash of clans or Civ. Might learn something.

People like you are a criminal's and terrorist's best friend. Gratz!

I honestly wonder if this level of insult and condescension would be tolerated here on the Chang if it was someone other than Asshatilus.
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Anaxilus

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I honestly wonder if this level of insult and condescension would be tolerated here on the Chang if it was someone other than Asshatilus.

It is all the time, and was in the past. Chris gets it for talking shit the day after four of my Marine brothers died. That's about as personal as it gets and he believes I need to be a victim just like they were so he can feel safe in his 'mind'. Fuck that. The gloves are off when you when you want to threaten my safety and well being.

You want to play armchair counter-terrorist and criminology expert with people who actually put their lives on the line in real life? Then suffer the consequences. The real world is not the Internet.

Go ahead and call me asshatilus. I could give two-fucks. It's nothing compared to my own custom-title. I don't care because I'm not a weak bitch that needs to infringe on peoples liberty to defend themselves so I can sleep comfortably in my imaginary bubble blanket.

Oh yeah, Chris also has been misreading and blew up the shoutbox calling Claritas a racist who thinks black people are inherently stupid. Forgive me if my karma meter if is full effect. This is a little personal and probably not best for others to get involved publicly. Due to the fact that people are dying and this hypocritical position about women being victimized, I am making this public by calling a spade a spade. Too bad if it makes you uncomfrotable.
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

"The Claw is our master. The Claw chooses who will go or who will stay." - The LGM Community

"You're like a dull knife, just ain't cuttin'. Talking loud, saying nothing." - James Brown

mickeyvortex

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It is all the time, and was in the past. Chris gets it for talking shit the day after four of my Marine brothers died. That's about as personal as it gets and he believes I need to be a victim just like they were so he can feel safe in his 'mind'. Fuck that. The gloves are off when you when you want to threaten my safety and well being.

You want to play armchair counter-terrorist and criminology expert with people who actually put their lives on the line in real life? Then suffer the consequences. The real world is not the Internet.

Go ahead and call me asshatilus. I could give two-fucks. It's nothing compared to my own custom-title. I don't care because I'm not a weak bitch that needs to infringe on peoples liberty to defend themselves so I can sleep comfortably in my imaginary bubble blanket.

Oh yeah, Chris also has been misreading and blew up the shoutbox calling Claritas a racist who thinks black people are inherently stupid. Forgive me if my karma meter if is full effect. This is a little personal and probably not best for others to get involved publicly. Due to the fact that people are dying and this hypocritical position about women being victimized, I am making this public by calling a spade a spade. Too bad if it makes you uncomfrotable.


I've only been on Changstar for a couple months but I imagine Anaxilus to be a raging bull.
I just hope he does not own a gun :) I think he does!

I'm physically handicapped so I couldn't join but my brother, sisters, father, uncles and cousins, or at least what's left of them, are all current and former army, and have fought in 4 wars. They would be the first to tell you that guns aren't the answer.
   And since you quote statistics, have you looked at gun-related accidental deaths? I live in PA and am addicted to the local news. Not a day goes by where a kid/parent gets "accidentally' shot by a loaded gun. 
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PelPix

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Everyone is wrong and it's a complicated situation. Women should have guns to protect themselves from violence, but this still would've happened if every single person in the room had a gun. They didn't do anything even though they could've easily, and that wouldn't have changed with everyone having guns. Also, it wouldn't make a difference if the woman had a gun, because she was drugged. Even still, women should have guns anyway. You guys are all split-thinking one way on the issue and it's kind of interesting to watch.
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OJneg

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https://www.gunowners.org/wv26.htm

"I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance.

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

Interesting stuff, but not relevant to the scenario at hand. The girl was at a party with someone she was familiar with. This is certainly not a "stranger" assault. This goes more along the lines with date rape.

All the firearms in the world wouldn't have saved that girl. A little of humanity and perseverance from her friends would have done the trick. No idea why you felt the need to bring in guns in the first place. Maybe because Kunlun has said some stupid shit on that topic in the past.
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Anaxilus

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Everyone is wrong and it's a complicated situation. Women should have guns to protect themselves from violence, but this still would've happened if every single person in the room had a gun. They didn't do anything even though they could've easily, and that wouldn't have changed with everyone having guns. Also, it wouldn't make a difference if the woman had a gun, because she was drugged. Even still, women should have guns anyway. You guys are all split-thinking one way on the issue and it's kind of interesting to watch.

I'm not saying if she herself had a gun it would have stopped anything. I'm particularly calling out Chris as a hypocritical asshole for being in favor or promoting and admonishing female victimzation at the same time.

However, had those kids grown up in household where they were possibly trained by their parents and empowered to not be victims, things might have turned out differently. I'd venture to guess they grew up in rather laissez-faire households without guidance on such issues.
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

"The Claw is our master. The Claw chooses who will go or who will stay." - The LGM Community

"You're like a dull knife, just ain't cuttin'. Talking loud, saying nothing." - James Brown

Anaxilus

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Maybe because Kunlun has said some stupid shit on that topic in the past.

Precisely. See above.
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"You're like a dull knife, just ain't cuttin'. Talking loud, saying nothing." - James Brown

Marvey

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What I don't understand is why I can't have gun in a holster if I hike in the woods, but criminals can have all the guns they want.

I also don't understand why Diane Feinstein, her friends, and friends of Hollywood can so easily obtain concealed weapons permits, whereas "normal" people such as myself cannot.
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OJneg

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Yes, perhaps we should ask Kunlun the purpose of posting this topic in the first place. Is it to:

1. Reinforce the politcal ideology that dictates how the evil patriarchy is oppressing women/minorities/etc and plunge us further down the abyss of white male guilt, or

2. Remind us about how humans have the capacity to be incredibly weak creatures

With today's progressives, it's usually the former
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