Topic: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing" (Read 6341 times)

kevin · « **Reply #50 on:** May 08, 2015, 12:44:19 PM »

What to do of you don't "like a thing?"

If the "thing" is someone telling a joke or expressing an opinion you should do nothing. If you disagree with the opinion then you can talk to them about that, bot only if they wish to discuss it.

But they have an absolute right to express their opinion, and tell jokes, no matter how politically incorrect or how much you want to repress it by labeling it "hate speech".

AustinValentine · « **Reply #51 on:** May 08, 2015, 01:33:44 PM »

Quote from: kevin on May 08, 2015, 12:44:19 PM

What to do of you don't "like a thing?"

If the "thing" is someone telling a joke or expressing an opinion you should do nothing. If you disagree with the opinion then you can talk to them about that, bot only if they wish to discuss it.

But they have an absolute right to express their opinion, and tell jokes, no matter how politically incorrect or how much you want to repress it by labeling it "hate speech".

The problem of rights is that they extend in both direction: both parties in this situation were well within their rights to do what they did. (Mike: telling an insensitive joke; Lachlan: not confronting Mike and expressing Facebook outrage). People these days seem to believe that first amendment protections mean that they can say anything they want and not face any cause/effect-based consequences as a result of it. The first amendment protects us (in theory, far less so these days in practice) from reprisal and censorship at the hands of the state. Private citizens, businesses, companies, corporations, etc. have a broad latitude in their actions vis-a-vis convincing, persuading, coercing, or applying economic leverage when they encounter another person saying something that they don't like.

The problem here isn't a problem of rights. Rights only give us the margins of what is permissible and legal - not what is moral or appropriate. The issue at hand was an issue of oughts and ends.

It's like Purrin said "Be the bigger man." Or Kunlun, "Be the cooler cat". Or Homer, "Let them say, 'He is a better man than his father!'"

Quote from: lachlanlikesathing on May 08, 2015, 12:33:27 PM

Mike can make whatever joke he wants, and by the same token I think it's fair for me to call him out on making a clumsy and insulting one.

But you're right. The fair thing to do would have been to call him out directly.

Repped. It's not easy to post after there has been three pages of critical comments and two more pages of awesome Kung-Fu comments. That takes guts.

P.S. Chromebook is mopping the floor with the competition in the above poll.

lm4der · « **Reply #52 on:** May 08, 2015, 01:46:22 PM »

Nice post @lachlan.

I think we need to ask the more important question: what would Chuck Norris do?

/ducks

Deep Funk · « **Reply #53 on:** May 08, 2015, 02:01:12 PM »

Kung Fu check

P.S. Riding a T-Rex is included in the end.

P.P.S. This song brings a smile to my face, I cannot help it.

lachlanlikesathing · « **Reply #54 on:** May 08, 2015, 02:03:42 PM »

Quote from: AustinValentine on May 08, 2015, 01:33:44 PM

epped. It's not easy to post after there has been three pages of critical comments and two more pages of awesome Kung-Fu comments. That takes guts.

I thought there was some thoughtful discussion in here and of course my ears were burning. Honestly I know not everyone is my biggest fan, but one of the things I missed about talking on Head-Fi is that I could have interesting discussions with people who didn't share my point of view and learn something from it. And I understand that Changstar is kind of meant to be a bastion of free speech and such. So I'm hoping that we can be civil here. I can tell you it's a bit better to get carefully constructed insults instead of some of the Youtube comments I get.

On a broader note, I actually support the right to free speech, in so far as free speech is the right to say what you want without fear of government sanction. While it's a tricky topic, I'm not really a supporter of hate speech laws because they would limit our ability to make intelligent critiques, even if they would limit the dumb rants. I understand the arguments for laws against specific invocations of violence against particular groups - the screaming 'fire' in a public theatre argument - but I'm a little worried about the consequences of defining legally acceptable speech in progressively narrower ways.

At the same time, as you point out, free speech does not mean immunity from criticism. I think most democratic societies as a whole provide a pretty good mechanism for discussion, critique and sanction. Marketplace of ideas yadda yadda. I don't feel things are so dire that we need to have these mechanisms replaced by some legal instrument which may one day enable the oppression it seeks to prevent.

Fun fact: Australia's constitution has no explicitly defined right to freedom of speech!

insidious meme · « **Reply #55 on:** May 08, 2015, 02:10:51 PM »

Quote from: lmader on May 08, 2015, 01:46:22 PM

Nice post @lachlan.

I think we need to ask the more important question: what would Chuck Norris do?

/ducks

Lose to Bruce Lee. As usual.

Kunlun · « **Reply #56 on:** May 08, 2015, 02:15:53 PM »

Props for coming over, Lachlan.

I think you'll find we have some interesting discussions about audio, too.

kevin · « **Reply #57 on:** May 08, 2015, 03:29:42 PM »

Quote from: AustinValentine on May 08, 2015, 01:33:44 PM

People these days seem to believe that first amendment protections mean that they can say anything they want and not face any cause/effect-based consequences as a result of it. The first amendment protects us (in theory, far less so these days in practice) from reprisal and censorship at the hands of the state. Private citizens, businesses, companies, corporations, etc. have a broad latitude in their actions vis-a-vis convincing, persuading, coercing, or applying economic leverage when they encounter another person saying something that they don't like.

Thanks for responding. I agree that the first amendment only protects us against censorship at the hands of the state.

I believe that private citizens, businesses, etc., should be free to "convince, persuade or apply economic leverage" against people saying or doing things they disagree with. That also is, or should be, protected by first amendment rights.

My concern is that those rights have been eroded by the good intentions of people trying to eliminate various forms of discrimination from society - racial, sexual or whatever. The tendency today is to use the power of the state to outlaw speech that is considered politically incorrect and coerce people to participate in activities that they disagree with.

History shows that giving the state too much power can be dangerous, and the ultimate power is the power to outlaw certain types of speech and to coerce private economic activity.

It's certainly not an easy issue, there's a lot of gray, and there are instances in which society could have an interest that overrides the rights of the individual. I think that was the case with the civil rights act and racial discrimination. Just not sure how far that exception should be used to expand the power of the state. It's a temptation that can lead to dark places.

kevin · « **Reply #58 on:** May 08, 2015, 03:33:21 PM »

BTW, I hate Windows but I've never tried a Mac or a Chromebook. Maybe I should.

insidious meme · « **Reply #59 on:** May 08, 2015, 03:51:53 PM »

Lachlan, anyone can be criticized for anything. It's how the criticized handles it going forward. But good on you to join in the conversation.

Poll

What kind of laptop would David Carradine use?

Author Topic: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing" (Read 6341 times)

kevin

Re: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

AustinValentine

Re: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

lm4der

Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

Deep Funk

Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

lachlanlikesathing

Re: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

insidious meme

Re: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

Kunlun

Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

kevin

Re: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

kevin

Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

insidious meme

Re: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing"

(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});

Poll

What kind of laptop would David Carradine use?

Author Topic: Re: What To Do If You Don't "Like A Thing" (Read 6341 times)