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Author Topic: Power Conditioning & Power Cables  (Read 8606 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2015, 03:32:09 PM »

Dave, yes, you are right about the 2am stuff. It has long been said that the power supply is cleaner in the night. But what difference would a power cord make to that. Power conditioning, maybe. Although previous comments about power supplies still apply. Remember, though, another big reason why your hifi is going to sound better at 2.00am: Lower ambient noise. Let's not overlook the simple answers. Stuff sounds better in a quieter room.

Yeah the 2am argument was about power conditioners, not cords. Power cords have no effect on that unless the cord has an in-line filter like the Purist LE or 25th Anniversary, but I don't use these types of cords as I think they are generally poor values. Most of them also cost more than a good power conditioner, and they are only good for one component unless you plug them into a strip, and even in that case, you don't get the outlet isolation or any of the other features of a good conditioner. I do use Purist's regular cords (Dominus, Corvus, and Aqueous) in my main system though, as I've found their unique shields to be more effective at keeping inside noise in and outside noise out than anything else I've used.

Component power supplies depend on the engineer, their budget constraints, and what their design priorities were. Brands like Pass, Levinson, and Boulder know their way around a power supply, and their amps will sound worse through the vast majority of line conditioners and power filters than going straight to the wall, but even they may get some benefit from an Audience or RSA.

My own Simaudio W5.3 is not in the same class as these ultra elite level amps, but its power supply design is certainly no slouch. Nevertheless, running it through the Jaco makes it that little bit better.

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Puma Cat

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2015, 06:07:48 PM »



All that's left is deciding what 2m power cords to get. ship's recommendation on hospital power cords is at the top of my list, though I'm having trouble finding a good brand and website to go with.

I'd like to suggest once again that you consider the Shunyata Venom3 source for $75 for their 5 ft cord (if 5ft will work in your application). It really will outperform a hospital cord (and a number of other aftermarket power cords as well). 
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Puma Cat

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2015, 06:23:46 PM »



People should not be too impressed with patents. Patents have become a joke. Draw a diagram of something with numbered arrows on it, you can patent it.

That's not accurate; there are clear legal stipulations for obtaining a patent. Two key ones are 1) the invention cannot be obvious a practitioner skilled in the art and 2) reduction to practice. You have to demonstrate that the invention actually works.

If there is a good device which protects against problems which are a severe risk to electronic components, without an audiophile label or price tag, then that is, I think, the thing to go for. There is nothing wrong with protecting kit, whether it is an amplifier or a washing machine, but if its own power supply does not sort out the every-day stuff coming down the line, then it probably wasn't a very good buy.

Dave, yes, you are right about the 2am stuff. It has long been said that the power supply is cleaner in the night. But what difference would a power cord make to that. Power conditioning, maybe. Although previous comments about power supplies still apply. Remember, though, another big reason why your hifi is going to sound better at 2.00am: Lower ambient noise. Let's not overlook the simple answers. Stuff sounds better in a quieter room.

Power cords improve sound quality because they shield input current from the electromagnetic and radio frequency fields that surround and bathe one's equipment in radiation that add noise in the form of hash and grunge to your system. This is hard to hear until you hear first-hand a side-by-side comparison with and without the cord in place. It's not just current flowing in a cord from the receptable to the component from point A to B. There are signficant EM and RF fields that are generated from power cords and the components themselves; the cord and component are emitting EM radiation that adds up as noise.

Here is electomagnetic radiation shown using an AC probe leaking from a standard 14 gauge IEC cord to an HDTV. This radiation is picked up by any stereo component, amplified, and contributes noise to the overall amplification chain.


Here is more EMI emanating from a power cord to a lamp. That cord was sitting right behind stereo gear.


Now, here is the same AC probe near a Shunyata Diamondback power cable swinging current to a speaker power amp that is driving loudspeaker to a loud level. Notice there is virtually no EMI leaking out of it, and none getting in to it, either.


These power cords prevent this noise from getting in to the cord, and they prevent this radiation from escaping the cord. They also make a significant difference in being able to swing current during transients.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 06:51:04 PM by Puma Cat »
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Puma Cat

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2015, 06:44:50 PM »

Component power supplies depend on the engineer, their budget constraints, and what their design priorities were. Brands like Pass, Levinson, and Boulder know their way around a power supply, and their amps will sound worse through the vast majority of line conditioners and power filters than going straight to the wall, but even they may get some benefit from an Audience or RSA.

My own Simaudio W5.3 is not in the same class as these ultra elite level amps, but its power supply design is certainly no slouch. Nevertheless, running it through the Jaco makes it that little bit better.


Running Springs makes excellent power distributors, and are one of the few that, as you say, you can plug the power amp into and not have it be current-limiting. The Jaco provides good value proposition as a power distributor.
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anetode

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2015, 06:44:58 PM »

That's not the whole story. If you listen to your system a lot, you may notice certain things, like there's an extra bit of goodness to the sound at around 2am when your neighbors are asleep and their lights and TVs and whatever else are all turned off. A good power conditioner can help to insulate your system from those power issues that are simply beyond your control, that may not cause obvious problems like transformer hum or buzzing from RFI, but just make your system sound not quite as good as it is capable of.

If you can identify what exactly is making your system sound worse and why, then yeah, you might find that a power conditioner fixes the problem. But there has to be a distinct problem rather than a nebulous neurotic fear of not-good-enough, else you're really only doing it for peace of mind. Not that that's a bad thing mind you, but let's be honest about it and not cover it up with irrelevant technical extrapolations.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2015, 07:45:09 PM »


Running Springs makes excellent power distributors, and are one of the few that, as you say, you can plug the power amp into and not have it be current-limiting. The Jaco provides good value proposition as a power distributor.

Yup. When I got it, it was the best performer I was able to find for right around $2K used. The Dmitri and Maxim cost more like $3500 on the used market and are a bit overkill for my setup. Audience's original AR6-T I thought was pretty comparable in performance to the Jaco, but cost more and had one less outlet, so I went with the Jaco. Audience has since revised their Teflon cap equipped models several times though, and the newest "SSD" variant is seriously good. Very expensive, but I'm not sure there's anything out there that's better.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2015, 07:51:18 PM »

If you can identify what exactly is making your system sound worse and why, then yeah, you might find that a power conditioner fixes the problem. But there has to be a distinct problem rather than a nebulous neurotic fear of not-good-enough, else you're really only doing it for peace of mind. Not that that's a bad thing mind you, but let's be honest about it and not cover it up with irrelevant technical extrapolations.

More noise on the power grid can reduce the performance of your system, I'm not sure what else I can say beyond that. When you're very familiar with how your system sounds, and you notice day after day that 2pm just doesn't sound as good as 2am, it's not hard to imagine why that might be. It's not simple ambient noise either, my listening room is dedicated and has fairly significant sound proofing behind the walls in addition to the room treatments that sit on the walls. The overall noise level of the room really doesn't change with the time of day.
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Puma Cat

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2015, 08:22:43 PM »

Yup. When I got it, it was the best performer I was able to find for right around $2K used. The Dmitri and Maxim cost more like $3500 on the used market and are a bit overkill for my setup. Audience's original AR6-T I thought was pretty comparable in performance to the Jaco, but cost more and had one less outlet, so I went with the Jaco. Audience has since revised their Teflon cap equipped models several times though, and the newest "SSD" variant is seriously good. Very expensive, but I'm not sure there's anything out there that's better.

Dave,
Here's an interesting story for you: Dan Babineau, the founder of RSA, also made the Teflon caps that C-J used in their components.

As an aside, my C-J CT-5's Teflon caps took about 1000 hours to burn in....almost two years of use.
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Armaegis

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2015, 08:07:57 AM »

Any thoughts on pro audio power strips like Furman or ART? (or are they just glorified power bars in heavy duty housings?)
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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2015, 12:18:10 PM »

Furman's rack mount products that they sell under their pro banner use the same technology and have the same specs as their consumer series filters. What I'm not familiar with though are their power factor models like the Elite 20 PFi or the P-1800 PF R on the pro side, or whether these can get around the usual restricted current problem endemic to all other series type filters. Others have reported sonic degradation when putting them in front of big amps though, and looking inside I'm not surprised that might happen. All usual suspects stuff with the exception of that big enclosed EMI/RF filter on the right side of the case.

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