Topic: Power Conditioning & Power Cables (Read 8606 times)

fishski13 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2015, 02:05:42 AM »

just some random thoughts...

when i lived in the city, where i was in a much more densely populated neighborhood, all power lines were aerial and i lived in close proximity to an industrial steel fabrication plant. every evening at around 10pm i could hear a distant low level whine coming from the steel plant outside my window. i had a Naim Hicap PS at the time that would develop a mechanical hum at the same hour, presumably some DC was getting through my mains causing the buzz.

the house was wired with Greenfield/flex conduit. only 2 wires for live and neutral inside the conduit with the metal conduit acting as ground. i assume the conduit acts as a shield, rejecting some RFI, but since my hi-fi room sat right above the mains breaker box, i decided to run a dedicated 20A outlet for my hi-fi anyways. maybe 6ft total wire to the hi-fi. i heard a subtle improvement but i also didn't have a bunch of noisy devices plugged into the the same hi-fi circuit before, just a bunch of other crap outside on the grid.

i think i have relatively clean power now. i don't have any obvious noise issues. i'm in a single family home out in the burbs and all residential power lines are buried. unfortunately my breaker box is in my garage and on the opposite end of the house of my hi-fi which sits in a finished basement. i'm very reluctant to go through the hassle of running a dedicated circuit. i'm guessing the run to be at least 150ft, and even then i'm still going to be picking up junk. so i'm exploring other more feasible options to see if i can hear an improvement with little cash outlay.

i mapped out the electrical to the basement the other evening. i found that my computer and ancillaries (modem, cable, router, phone, printer etc.) were all plugged into the same circuit as the hi-fi. i have an outlet on another breaker in close proximity and was able to discretely run an extension cord for the single power strip that the computer and stuff are plugged into to get it off the hi-fi circuit. i have dimmers for the recessed lighting, but these make no audible noise when switched off. i prefer lamps anyways. i moved the carbon monoxide detector as well. so now i just have light bulbs that sit on the same circuit as the hi-fi.

i picked up a couple of Corcom B series single stage EMI/RFI filters to experiment with: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/10VB1/CCM1304-ND/142141 . one of these filters will be dedicated for a duplex outlet dedicated for digital sources. ideally these should be placed inside the components themselves, but this isn't realistic and i'm just going to throw them in a small electrical junction box that will sit between the wall AC outlet and my hi-fi power strip. the Corcom R series is a 2 stage filter and offers better attenuation, but is larger and pricier. i may try these down the road if my experience with the B series is positive.

shipsupt · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2015, 12:00:39 PM »

More random thoughts...

Voltage will change throughout the day. Ranges are much tighter worldwide now,but there are still fairly significant ranges at different times of the day. I see around +/-10% at my home, most often on the + side of that range.

When I'm firing up amps I am building for the first time I often use a Variac.

RexAeterna · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2015, 12:50:43 PM »

I never use power conditioners or protection when comes to audio gear. My amps already filter out emi/rf effectively themselves so no point. All I would br doing is limited my amps. I only keep simple/basic appliances such as my tv, game consoles and laptop are plugged into power strip, that's it.

As for power cords.... No need for super expensive one. If it's heavy gauge enough to carry the necessary current then it's fine. I mean what's the point when it's still gonna draw that power from same old wiring in your place and from 1000's of miles of power lines from outside.

Only thing might make difference in some cases might be a power conditioner but, I would only use it for appliances and not my amps. Amps, pres, ect. Are always directly in wall socket.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2015, 02:36:47 PM »

Quote from: RexAeterna on January 30, 2015, 12:50:43 PM

As for power cords.... No need for super expensive one. If it's heavy gauge enough to carry the necessary current then it's fine. I mean what's the point when it's still gonna draw that power from same old wiring in your place and from 1000's of miles of power lines from outside.

This is the argument that I always hear on this subject, and I wish I had some explanation, but I don't. The reason why stock connectors and cheap outlets might not sound as good as the high-end stuff makes logical sense (low grade brass or phosphor bronze metals make very poor electrical conductors, and they may use screws for termination that are even worse) but as for why plugging in a $500 power cord to a wall socket which is connected to obviously lower quality wiring back to your breaker box makes a difference, I have no idea. It just does...sometimes. Depends on the particular cord and device its connected to. Switch mode supplies for example get absolutely no benefit from power cables, anything will do.

kothganesh · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2015, 03:39:46 PM »

I have a 140 KvA stabilizer for the entire house. Would I need a power conditioner on top of this?

Thad E Ginathom · « **Reply #25 on:** January 30, 2015, 05:14:46 PM »

Quote from: DaveBSC on January 30, 2015, 02:36:47 PM

why plugging in a $500 power cord to a wall socket which is connected to obviously lower quality wiring back to your breaker box makes a difference, I have no idea. It just does...sometimes.

In another conversation on another forum, with a pro-audio designer/engineer/builder, the conclusion was... yes it does...sometimes. It is not religion, it is not bias, it is not imagination... it is the combination of things like a power supply that might not be as well designed or built as it should be.

Of course, often it is religion/bias/imagination. That goes with all the annealed-in-virgin-piss nonsense which is what people pay big money for.

anetode · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2015, 05:58:28 PM »

Have a problem with noise? Start thinking about power conditioners, iso trannies, etc. No noise? Don't worry about it, spend your extra dough on hookers and blow.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2015, 09:54:46 PM »

Quote from: anetode on January 30, 2015, 05:58:28 PM

Have a problem with noise? Start thinking about power conditioners, iso trannies, etc. No noise? Don't worry about it, spend your extra dough on hookers and blow.

That's not the whole story. If you listen to your system a lot, you may notice certain things, like there's an extra bit of goodness to the sound at around 2am when your neighbors are asleep and their lights and TVs and whatever else are all turned off. A good power conditioner can help to insulate your system from those power issues that are simply beyond your control, that may not cause obvious problems like transformer hum or buzzing from RFI, but just make your system sound not quite as good as it is capable of.

Puma Cat · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2015, 10:52:53 PM »

Quote from: Elysian on January 28, 2015, 07:12:19 PM

I'm looking to redo my power cabling and conditioning setup and am unsure on the best path to go, so would love to hear from you guys on what's worked and what hasn't.

Thanks for any suggestions Links to listings and websites would be most appreciated, too.

Elysian,
I've been using aftermarket power cords and power distributors from Shunyata since 2010 with excellent success. While I have other power cords, in my experience, Shunyata is the brand to beat in this area of products. Their founder, Caelin Gabrieal is a former NSA signals processing engineer and truly brilliant. The majority of his products are patented, which means they truly have to work (you can't get a patent if you can't reduce an invention to practice).

My first recommendation would be to start with Shunyata Venom power cords. These cords provide superb performance for dollar. A standard 5 ft cord is about $150, and outperforms an $800 Wireworld power cord that I also own. They make a range of Venom power cords, but I would start with the standard cord for components, and the less expensive Venom3 Source (about $80) for CD players, DACs, etc. For amps and preamps, I would use the standard Venom3. I would use as many of these as your budget allows as the benefits are additive.

For power distribution, you will get additional benefits from using a Shunyata power distributor. I would recommend buying a used one; a used Shunyata Hydra 8 can be had for about $1K, and it will result in a component-level upgrade in performance of your system. I personally use Shunyata Triton for my 2-channel loudspeaker based system, and my Hydra 8 for my home theatre system. BTW, if you put a Venom3 on your HDTV, you can actually see the benefits these cords bring: blacker blacks, improved contrast, and more vivid colors. It's quite remarkable to see with your own eyes.

As you have more budget over time, you will additional benefits as you go up the line in the power cords, from Zitron Cobra to Python to Anaconda.

Also, your system will benefit from these power cords and distributors regardless of how clean the power is coming in to your house. A lot of folks don't realize that stereo components generate significant electromagnetic fields around them that bathe your audio rack in EM radiation and often, radio frequency noise. The power cords work by preventing this EMI and RF noise (manifested as grunge and hash) by shielding them from getting into your components, and also prevent EMI from escaping out of a cord when a power cord is pulling amps when driving an amplifier or preamplifier, etc. All this EMI and RF add noise to your system that you are not aware of until it is gone.

Shunyata develops their products scientifically, and as I have mentioned, have patents on the majority of their products. You can also see data from how their products improve dynamic transient current delivery by going to their web site:

http://www.shunyata.com

Regards,
Stephen aka PC

DaveBSC · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2015, 12:48:48 AM »

Quote from: Puma Cat on January 30, 2015, 10:52:53 PM

For power distribution, you will get additional benefits from using a Shunyata power distributor.

Here's my issue with Shunyata. The original Hydra Model 4, 6, and 8 have maybe $50-100 worth of parts in them. The $2 noise suppression caps they used do work, but even among high-end audio products known for significant markup, the prices are simply outrageous for a mostly empty box. The newer Alpha versions have more robust buss bars linking the outlets, and the caps are better than the old $2 Vishays, but they are still nothing compared to what Audience uses in the Adept Response conditioners. Shunyata also uses the same kind of dirt cheap sacrificial MOVs as in $10 surge protector strips, instead of the zero loss, zero impact, non sacrificial surge protection employed by RSA, Audience, and PI in the Buss Stop.

Author Topic: Power Conditioning & Power Cables (Read 8606 times)

fishski13

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

shipsupt

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

RexAeterna

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

DaveBSC

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

kothganesh

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

Thad E Ginathom

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

anetode

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

DaveBSC

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

Puma Cat

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

DaveBSC

Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables

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Author Topic: Power Conditioning & Power Cables (Read 8606 times)