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Author Topic: Power Conditioning & Power Cables  (Read 8606 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 07:49:01 AM »

DaveBSC any opinion on high end power strips like the Furman PST-8D?  I was reading about it lately and it claims to use series mode protection like Surgex/brickwall and they got sued for that claim because it's really hybrid shunt mode surge protection and they settled..  it has two isolated banks of 4 plugs which is less than the tripplite competitor but maybe the ac filtering is better?  or is this the type of filtering you said was bad.. I know there is paralell ac filtering where the filters aren't in line with the mains power and I guess series is where it is?  is that the active filtering you said was current limiting?  I'm a cheap bastard and the only stuff within my price range are power strips like this or maybe something like the APC H15 power conditioner thing

The Furman is nicely made for what it is, and it's fine for TVs, computers, that sort of thing. I wouldn't plug any kind of amplifier into it. Series filters on a fundamental level are all basically the same, even my thousand dollar Panamax in my living room. I don't plug my Naim amp into it, because it chokes the sound to death. The Nait 5i is only a 50W amp, but it doesn't matter, it still sounds vastly better going straight to the wall than through one of the Panamax's "high-current" outlets.



If it's in your budget, I would give the MiniBuss a try.



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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 07:56:28 AM »

For contrast, here's how RSA and Audience approach things. These two are the best I've encountered, with Audience's latest "SSD" update being king of the hill. At some point I might replace my Jaco with an AR6-TSSD if I find a good deal on Audiogon.



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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 09:59:46 AM »

Same here, i've noticed a difference 200-300+

Not personal, I just picked yours as an example, but it always amazes me how people are able to associate price with quality in this way. Soon, we have manufacturers actually explicitly  advertising, "Expensive! Costs More Than Our Other Models!" as an specific feature, rather than just an implied selling point.

Nobody seems interested in plain simple wire. Conducts electricity. It's all you need.

At the same time, I suppose the internet doesn't need yet another Oh Yes It Does; Oh No It Doesn't thread.  But don't rule out the  cheap and simple options. They might even be the best!
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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 10:54:11 AM »

Not personal, I just picked yours as an example, but it always amazes me how people are able to associate price with quality in this way. Soon, we have manufacturers actually explicitly  advertising, "Expensive! Costs More Than Our Other Models!" as an specific feature, rather than just an implied selling point.

Nobody seems interested in plain simple wire. Conducts electricity. It's all you need.

At the same time, I suppose the internet doesn't need yet another Oh Yes It Does; Oh No It Doesn't thread.  But don't rule out the  cheap and simple options. They might even be the best!

There's absolutely zero price/performance correlation when it comes to audio cables, that's for sure. There are some companies that make great cables and charge reasonable prices, there are companies that make great cables with stratospheric prices, and there are also LOADS of cable companies that make blah cables for stratospheric prices. (cough: MIT).

There's certainly nothing wrong with using stock cords. I would probably suggest shielded cords for source components, but those don't have to cost more than anything else, and I would also suggest a fairly heavy gauge (at least 14/3) cord for an amplifier. There's some disagreement about whether shielded or unshielded cords work better with analog components and amps, but I'll leave that for others.

In my experience, to get a noticeable boost over whatever came in the box, you need to spend at least a fair bit of coin, because you need something better than basic OFC, you need a low absorption dielectric, and preferably something better than an $8 Marinco.

As with everything else cable related, the best value for dollar is to DIY, and fortunately power cables are probably the easiest of any type to make yourself. If the cord is unshielded, you can make it in about 5 minutes with a wire stripper and screw driver. Shielded cords take a bit longer because you have to cut the shield and then shape the braid into a wire so it can be inserted into the male connector along with the ground wire, but it's not hard at all to do. Using crimp sleeves instead of bare wire will make the work go even faster.

DH Labs Power Plus 12/3 bulk cable costs about $8/ft, and the very sexy Cardas plugs are about $50/ea. So for a little over $100, you can make a cord comparable to commercial cords that cost $300 or so.

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shipsupt

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2015, 11:49:28 AM »

On the cheap power front I've always liked to grab some hospital grade cords like these: http://www.amazon.com/Conntek-25228-125-Volt-Hospital-10-Foot/dp/B004NYAXB0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1354631618&sr=8-2&keywords=hospital+power+cord

They aren't pretty, but they are built well, durable, and functional.  I wouldn't buy from that link, you can find them cheaper and at the lengths you want in bulk if you shop around... very cheap. 

Some guys used to rebrand them as Iron Lung Jellyfish cables, or something like that, and mark them up double in price.   *:p


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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2015, 12:09:38 PM »

That is sexy enough for me! My only problem being that I only use Indian or UK/Singapore plugs, having lived in, err... India and UK. Also, although cables can be made pretty, we soon forget about them and leave them to gather dust --- otherwise, I don't object to pretty things, functional or not. Let's start a range. We have the Iron-Lung Jellyfish in power cables, next we'll add the Dumb Blonde interconnect  :)p2.

I'm careful when I wire plugs, and fairly neat, unlike the dogs' dinner of a mess I make of most things, but I have encountered problems, mostly with the small, 5-amp, three-round-pins plug we have in India (and, in my youth, in UK). This, short of burning the house down, is fairly worst-case, but I had been noticing distorting sound. Only when the table lamp started to flicker did I trace the problem to a loose and sparking plug connection  facepalm .

Simple physical quality and security really does make a difference. Like not burning the house down  :)p4

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kothganesh

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2015, 02:04:45 PM »

Nick, you can get universal plug adapters for using the power cords... I do that all the time.
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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2015, 06:57:21 PM »

For $300, I don't think the MiniBuss can be beat. BPT's Pure Power Center is not a filter as such, it's intended to be a very high quality power strip. You can add caps across the outlets and surge protection at additional cost, but that will mostly just provide inter-outlet isolation along with some filtering, but I don't think it will be as good as the MiniBuss.

The Clean Power Center is priced in between the Mini and MagikBuss, but when you start adding options it's comparable to the MagikBuss. I haven't compared them together, but my experience with PI conditioners would lead me in that direction.

I should note though that the PI models have no breakers, fuses, or surge/spike protection of any kind, they are purely power filters and nothing more. PI makes the Buss Stop which is a zero loss surge/spike protector, but it's expensive at $500.

Neither of them have any sort of voltage regulation. The best voltage regulator that I'm aware of is the Furman SPR-20i, but that costs quite a bit, and it has the same drawbacks as any other regulator, just more capacity and more of an iron grip on output voltage. Most amplifier manufacturers will tell you not to use a regulator unless you have serious sag problems - power dropping under 100V. In that case, I would think about upgrading the house wiring instead.


OK, thanks for the info. I don't think the house drops below 100V. Usually it seems to drop to around 110V, maybe a touch under, at worst (TV on in other room, dishwasher running, both desktop PCs on at once, then someone turning on the microwave...that sort of scenario). I wouldn't be able to do anything with the house anyway, since it's a rental (stupid old houses). I doubt I'd need any surge protection for just my audio gear, at least when it comes to how/when I use that stuff.
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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2015, 07:11:41 PM »

Nick, you can get universal plug adapters for using the power cords... I do that all the time.

Yes, I have a boxful of those sort of things. I have adapters with both UK-flat and Indian-round pins; I buy them mostly in Singapore, as they still have both systems there. Even though it is cheapo (Mustafa, mostly :) ) stuff, I feel that the Sing-sourced stuff is better than local. I probably wouldn't pass a blind test on that though!

In theory, I'd always prefer not using too many adapters, extensions, etc, thinking that the more breaks, metal-to-metal interfaces, etc, the more potential for trouble, even if it is only oxidising, let alone loose contacts. In practice... you wouldn't want to see what's behind my desk.


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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2015, 09:19:44 PM »


OK, thanks for the info. I don't think the house drops below 100V. Usually it seems to drop to around 110V, maybe a touch under, at worst (TV on in other room, dishwasher running, both desktop PCs on at once, then someone turning on the microwave...that sort of scenario). I wouldn't be able to do anything with the house anyway, since it's a rental (stupid old houses). I doubt I'd need any surge protection for just my audio gear, at least when it comes to how/when I use that stuff.

Gotcha. Yeah I think you should be fine without a regulator in that scenario. Components are pretty adept at dealing with 110-130V without any issue. The under-voltage shutoff on my Panamax doesn't occur until the line drops to 90V.
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