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Author Topic: Power Conditioning & Power Cables  (Read 8606 times)

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Elysian

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Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« on: January 28, 2015, 07:12:19 PM »

I'm looking to redo my power cabling and conditioning setup and am unsure on the best path to go, so would love to hear from you guys on what's worked and what hasn't.

I'm currently using a Sola ferroresonant transformer and really long, thick power cables from Monoprice. I'm going to toss the Sola since the humming is so loud it forces me to keep it located far away from the listening area, and I'm tired of the long and unsightly power cable runs from the transformer to my equipment.

1) Power Conditioner: Does anyone have any suggestions on what to replace the Sola with? Max budget is $1k (no preference on new or used; cheaper is better! 4-6 plugs is ideal). My biggest preference is just having something to protect the gear from electrical surges/spikes. Any improvement in SQ is great but I know there's a lot of controversy about power conditioning so I won't get into it here. I do have two strongly preferred requirements, though:
1a) The device shouldn't give off any audible sound. The Sola gave off a really audible hum and was really distracting.
1b) The device should have minimal air circulation needs and not give off much heat. It's going to probably be located in a place that won't get a ton of passive air circulation.

2) Power Cables: What should I replace my long Monoprice power cables with? More Monoprice power cables? Some other cost-effective option? I've never experimented with power cables before. I'm open to any recommendations. Cheaper is better. I'll need to replace 4-6 cables so keeping each cable within the $10-50 range is strongly preferred (runs will only be 4-6ft this time around).

Thanks for any suggestions :) Links to listings and websites would be most appreciated, too.
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Freddy1201

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2015, 07:35:02 PM »

For the power cables i really like the one from audioquest, good quality and low noise, they range in various prices.
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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2015, 08:15:37 PM »

Almost all my power cables came with computers or related equipment. They are well made, have moulded-on plugs that never have conductors come loose and start sparking or give any other problem.

The conduct electricity fro where it is to where I want it with no fuss and no bother. Nothing further required.

Oh, except protection from over-voltage and spikes. I had 440v at the sockets one day, due to a short out in the street. Luckily nothing really precious was plugged in and turned on. The stuff I am listening to right now is protected by a UPS, because the computer is, and so is everything else in my corner. Power cuts, yes... but it should also blow up before other stuff does. On that 440 day it wouldn't even power up.

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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2015, 08:48:34 PM »

1) Power Conditioner: Does anyone have any suggestions on what to replace the Sola with? Max budget is $1k (no preference on new or used; cheaper is better! 4-6 plugs is ideal). My biggest preference is just having something to protect the gear from electrical surges/spikes. Any improvement in SQ is great but I know there's a lot of controversy about power conditioning so I won't get into it here. I do have two strongly preferred requirements, though:
1a) The device shouldn't give off any audible sound. The Sola gave off a really audible hum and was really distracting.
1b) The device should have minimal air circulation needs and not give off much heat. It's going to probably be located in a place that won't get a ton of passive air circulation.

2) Power Cables: What should I replace my long Monoprice power cables with? More Monoprice power cables? Some other cost-effective option? I've never experimented with power cables before. I'm open to any recommendations. Cheaper is better. I'll need to replace 4-6 cables so keeping each cable within the $10-50 range is strongly preferred (runs will only be 4-6ft this time around).

Thanks for any suggestions :) Links to listings and websites would be most appreciated, too.

Isolation transformers, particularly the balanced variety are very effective line noise killers, but the transformer hum from residual DC on the line can definitely be an issue as you've noted. They are also of course limited by their output, and it's not a good idea to run a bunch of components through them that get them close to their rated output, which makes them really only suited for low power source components unless you get the humongous, 100lb. 2400VA variety.

So called AC regenerators are basically power amps that output 60Hz tones. I've tried them, and they are not as effective as the best passive types. They are also the least reliable in my experience.

I do not recommend series type capacitor/inductor based filters for serious listening environments. They are cheap and many of them are very effective surge protectors, but they all, ALL absolutely strangle amplifiers to death. They are restrictive by design, despite so called "high-current" outlets. It's BS. You're legitimately better off with a $20 surge protector strip than one of these types of power filters.

I've tried most of the power products out there, and there are two that I would recommend. 1. Used Running Springs Haley. No power robbing series filters, no crappy sounding MOVs. To stay in budget you'll need to get a gen 1. (Gen 2s have carbon fiber front panels and some internal component updates). The Haley was RSA's entry level product and so you don't get the performance of a Dmitri or Maxim, but it does everything you require, and from everything I know about them, they are extremely reliable unlike say PS Audio Power Plants. I use a Running Springs Jaco in my main system with excellent results.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/ac-conditioners-running-springs-haley-2015-01-01-power-07857-netcong-nj

2. PI Audio Mini Buss and Buss Stop. PI Audio sells these factory direct, and they can be made to order. I haven't tried these two together, but my guess is they would be fairly comparable to the H aley. A MagikBuss or UberBuss would be a big step up sound wise, but you wouldn't be able to add the Buss Stop to either of those at under $1K.

As for power cables, a $50 power cable is no different than a $10 power cable. The $50 cable will probably have some Techflex on it and some Marinco hospital connectors instead of molded plastic plugs or those cheap Schurter plugs. That's really it. That's not to say that power cables don't do anything, in my experience they absolutely do, but you really need to spend a good $200+ before you'll start to notice a real difference.

http://power.apitech.com/audio-power-conditioners-and-cords.aspx
http://www.piaudiogroup.com/
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Freddy1201

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 09:30:24 PM »

Isolation transformers, particularly the balanced variety are very effective line noise killers, but the transformer hum from residual DC on the line can definitely be an issue as you've noted. They are also of course limited by their output, and it's not a good idea to run a bunch of components through them that get them close to their rated output, which makes them really only suited for low power source components unless you get the humongous, 100lb. 2400VA variety.

So called AC regenerators are basically power amps that output 60Hz tones. I've tried them, and they are not as effective as the best passive types. They are also the least reliable in my experience.

I do not recommend series type capacitor/inductor based filters for serious listening environments. They are cheap and many of them are very effective surge protectors, but they all, ALL absolutely strangle amplifiers to death. They are restrictive by design, despite so called "high-current" outlets. It's BS. You're legitimately better off with a $20 surge protector strip than one of these types of power filters.

I've tried most of the power products out there, and there are two that I would recommend. 1. Used Running Springs Haley. No power robbing series filters, no crappy sounding MOVs. To stay in budget you'll need to get a gen 1. (Gen 2s have carbon fiber front panels and some internal component updates). The Haley was RSA's entry level product and so you don't get the performance of a Dmitri or Maxim, but it does everything you require, and from everything I know about them, they are extremely reliable unlike say PS Audio Power Plants. I use a Running Springs Jaco in my main system with excellent results.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/ac-conditioners-running-springs-haley-2015-01-01-power-07857-netcong-nj

2. PI Audio Mini Buss and Buss Stop. PI Audio sells these factory direct, and they can be made to order. I haven't tried these two together, but my guess is they would be fairly comparable to the Haley. A MagikBuss or UberBuss would be a big step up sound wise, but you wouldn't be able to add the Buss Stop to either of those at under $1K.

As for power cables, a $50 power cable is no different than a $10 power cable. The $50 cable will probably have some Techflex on it and some Marinco hospital connectors instead of molded plastic plugs or those cheap Schurter plugs. That's really it. That's not to say that power cables don't do anything, in my experience they absolutely do, but you really need to spend a good $200+ before you'll start to notice a real difference.

http://power.apitech.com/audio-power-conditioners-and-cords.aspx
http://www.piaudiogroup.com/

Same here, i've noticed a difference 200-300+. It makes a difference, more Prat in my experience, but this is one of the last bits you should buy in a system. The money/improvement ratio is better on amplifier/headphone/source for sure.
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ericfarrell85

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 09:50:43 PM »

Going up the line proved a great upgrade. The BPT 3.5+ was a no contest from the PPP. Very nice step up. BPT remains the best I've heard.
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Hands

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2015, 12:58:08 AM »

For someone with an even lower budget, how do products like the PI MiniBUSS and BPT Pure or Clean Power Center compare in terms of quality and overall purpose in relation to audio equipment? Not sure what the lower end API models go for, how good they are, or what purpose they have. These are all standalone products you can use by themselves, right? Any of them help with older houses where voltage drops when you've got too many electronics going at once? My APC H10 helps with that, but I know it's not ideal for audio equipment.
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uncola

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2015, 07:24:03 AM »

DaveBSC any opinion on high end power strips like the Furman PST-8D?  I was reading about it lately and it claims to use series mode protection like Surgex/brickwall and they got sued for that claim because it's really hybrid shunt mode surge protection and they settled..  it has two isolated banks of 4 plugs which is less than the tripplite competitor but maybe the ac filtering is better?  or is this the type of filtering you said was bad.. I know there is paralell ac filtering where the filters aren't in line with the mains power and I guess series is where it is?  is that the active filtering you said was current limiting?  I'm a cheap bastard and the only stuff within my price range are power strips like this or maybe something like the APC H15 power conditioner thing
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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 07:32:49 AM »

For someone with an even lower budget, how do products like the PI MiniBUSS and BPT Pure or Clean Power Center compare in terms of quality and overall purpose in relation to audio equipment? Not sure what the lower end API models go for, how good they are, or what purpose they have. These are all standalone products you can use by themselves, right? Any of them help with older houses where voltage drops when you've got too many electronics going at once? My APC H10 helps with that, but I know it's not ideal for audio equipment.

For $300, I don't think the MiniBuss can be beat. BPT's Pure Power Center is not a filter as such, it's intended to be a very high quality power strip. You can add caps across the outlets and surge protection at additional cost, but that will mostly just provide inter-outlet isolation along with some filtering, but I don't think it will be as good as the MiniBuss.

The Clean Power Center is priced in between the Mini and MagikBuss, but when you start adding options it's comparable to the MagikBuss. I haven't compared them together, but my experience with PI conditioners would lead me in that direction.

I should note though that the PI models have no breakers, fuses, or surge/spike protection of any kind, they are purely power filters and nothing more. PI makes the Buss Stop which is a zero loss surge/spike protector, but it's expensive at $500.

Neither of them have any sort of voltage regulation. The best voltage regulator that I'm aware of is the Furman SPR-20i, but that costs quite a bit, and it has the same drawbacks as any other regulator, just more capacity and more of an iron grip on output voltage. Most amplifier manufacturers will tell you not to use a regulator unless you have serious sag problems - power dropping under 100V. In that case, I would think about upgrading the house wiring instead.
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PianistOne111

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 07:47:09 AM »

Sorry to disappoint you, but you're unlikely to be satisfied with anything less than this.
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