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Author Topic: Power Conditioning & Power Cables  (Read 8606 times)

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uncola

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2015, 01:50:56 AM »

Dave, you almost have me sold on a Minibuss.  Do you know if the outlets are isolated from each other to block dc transients from SMPS powered devices etc? :P  I have to say though, the thing that makes me hesitate is how secretive the maker is about the inside components.. and the ers paper which from what I understand no one has ever been able to scientifically explain how it works.. I wasn't able to find a picture of his stuff with the covers off

and I found this post by Patrick from coconut audio saying he loves ERS Paper :/

http://www.head-fi.org/t/203032/ers-paper-picture-and-video-thread/360#post_3337440
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 02:07:47 AM by uncola »
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Elysian

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2015, 04:24:06 AM »

Thanks for all the great discussion and suggestions :) After thinking things through, I ended up picking some Tripp-Lite Isobars and will see how those do. They seem to have great bang-for-buck according to folks on many audio communities.

All that's left is deciding what 2m power cords to get. ship's recommendation on hospital power cords is at the top of my list, though I'm having trouble finding a good brand and website to go with.

Iron Lung Jellyfish seem like they were popular but the maker passed away back in 2012 :( There's the legendary Volex 17604 but apparently another factory is manufacturing the cables now and they lost the magic. There's also DIY, though I've never made power cables before. Would love any suggestions for quality 2m power cables at $15-50/ea.
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fishski13

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2015, 04:30:28 AM »

for DIY parts and recipes: http://www.vhaudio.com/ . get a cheap DVM to double check your work.
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fishski13

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2015, 06:06:56 AM »

my Corcom EMI/RFI filters arrived from Digikey along with some swanky non-wanky-wire $2 Qualtek USB cables for my Wyrd/Gungnir. since these are designed to filter 150khz and above, the common mode choke is of very low resistance - a fraction of a fraction of an ohm - total series resistance from input to output is probably mOhms. my Fluke cannot accurately measure resistance this low. any dynamic resistance will not remotely affect AC mains at 60Hz. hence no current limiting. for reference, my 500VA TX from SumR in my NP F5 has 31ohms across the primaries.

any hi-fi component, or antennae in the form of mains wiring, can produce common mode and differential noise. while amplifiers vary in bandwidth, they don't care what they amplify within their speced bandwidth. will i hear a difference with a basic, dumb RFI/EMI filter? will some topologies benefit more than others?     
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Lojay

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2015, 07:32:20 AM »


For power distribution, you will get additional benefits from using a Shunyata power distributor. I would recommend buying a used one; a used Shunyata Hydra 8 can be had for about $1K, and it will result in a component-level upgrade in performance of your system. I personally use Shunyata Triton for my 2-channel loudspeaker based system, and my Hydra 8 for my home theatre system. BTW, if you put a Venom3 on your HDTV, you can actually see the benefits these cords bring: blacker blacks, improved contrast, and more vivid colors. It's quite remarkable to see with your own eyes.

Stephen, how big is the difference from the Shunyata Hydra to the Triton? I am able to get my hands on a Triton for about $3k used.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2015, 11:44:54 AM »

Dave, you almost have me sold on a Minibuss.  Do you know if the outlets are isolated from each other to block dc transients from SMPS powered devices etc? :P  I have to say though, the thing that makes me hesitate is how secretive the maker is about the inside components.. and the ers paper which from what I understand no one has ever been able to scientifically explain how it works.. I wasn't able to find a picture of his stuff with the covers off

and I found this post by Patrick from coconut audio saying he loves ERS Paper :/

The MagikBuss and UberBuss definitely have very good outlet isolation. I would imagine the Mini has some of that too, but I don't know to what degree. Have you talked to Dave from PI about it? None of his stuff is set in stone, so he may be able to add additional isolation or other things like that if you let him know what you're looking for.

As for what's inside them, yeah it would be nice to see, but ultimately the question is do they work or not, and they absolutely do. Dave may also be willing to share internal shots with you or at the very least go into detail on exactly what's inside if you ask.

The B-P-T 3.5 Signature balanced ISO transformer is completely covered from head to toe in ERS cloth, so Chris definitely believes in it.

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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2015, 11:57:54 AM »

Iron Lung Jellyfish seem like they were popular but the maker passed away back in 2012 :( There's the legendary Volex 17604 but apparently another factory is manufacturing the cables now and they lost the magic. There's also DIY, though I've never made power cables before. Would love any suggestions for quality 2m power cables at $15-50/ea.

What I would probably suggest for right around $50 is the "Asylum" cord from Canada's Take Five audio parts, which follows Bob Crump's Asylum cord recipe to the letter. The base is Belden 19364, terminated with a nice Pass & Seymour connector. Their prices for pre-terminated cables are incredibly reasonable.

http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=1057

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RexAeterna

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2015, 12:54:52 PM »

This is the argument that I always hear on this subject, and I wish I had some explanation, but I don't. The reason why stock connectors and cheap outlets might not sound as good as the high-end stuff makes logical sense (low grade brass or phosphor bronze metals make very poor electrical conductors, and they may use screws for termination that are even worse) but as for why plugging in a $500 power cord to a wall socket which is connected to obviously lower quality wiring back to your breaker box makes a difference, I have no idea. It just does...sometimes. Depends on the particular cord and device its connected to. Switch mode supplies for example get absolutely no benefit from power cables, anything will do.

I haven't seen a bronze or brass connector for long time. Last I checked they're only used on really old lamps. Never seen them on power cords or extension cords ever. All cords use simple solder connections and use the standard aluminum pins/prongs and even sometimes gold plated. This basic stuff you find even at your local walmart or home dept. I never seen power cables use screw terminals (why the heck would they?). It was nothing but basic soldering.  Even home dept has power connectors of different kinds to make your own cables. If I was in such concern for resistance I would just get step up in gauge then. I think regular power cord is fine. You don't see professional sound reinforcers using blinged out power cables and they're drawing more then 25-30A (over 1500-2000w) for all night sessions. Just saying...
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DaveBSC

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2015, 01:18:43 PM »

You don't see professional sound reinforcers using blinged out power cables and they're drawing more then 25-30A (over 1500-2000w) for all night sessions. Just saying...

It's a different customer. First of all, there is no high-end 30A connector that I'm aware of, although some high-end conditioners do use the Neutrik 32A PowerCon for the input. High-end power cords are not used because they can dish out more power than basic copper. They're used for the effect they have on the sound, and they are used in many high-end mastering studios.

As for brass prongs and screw terminals, the most ubiquitous connector out there, the Marinco 5266, uses both.

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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Power Conditioning & Power Cables
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2015, 02:05:44 PM »

With applause to anetode, I am definitely going for hookers and blow as a much, much more satisfying way of spending the money.

Call it prejudice (and you'd probably be right: I confess to being a bit of a recovering audiophool, which probably means I overcompensate sometimes) but, specifically, I would not even think of Shunyata, Audioquest, or any of the other boutique-type cable makers. Hats off to Dave on that one too.

People should not be too impressed with patents. Patents have become a joke. Draw a diagram of something with numbered arrows on it, you can patent it. I'm waiting for Apple to announce that they own the patent to diagrams with numbered arrows on the. (Or microsoft: substitute name of choice to suit personal prejudice!)

If there is a good device which protects against problems which are a severe risk to electronic components, without an audiophile label or price tag, then that is, I think, the thing to go for. There is nothing wrong with protecting kit, whether it is an amplifier or a washing machine, but if its own power supply does not sort out the every-day stuff coming down the line, then it probably wasn't a very good buy.

Dave, yes, you are right about the 2am stuff. It has long been said that the power supply is cleaner in the night. But what difference would a power cord make to that. Power conditioning, maybe. Although previous comments about power supplies still apply. Remember, though, another big reason why your hifi is going to sound better at 2.00am: Lower ambient noise. Let's not overlook the simple answers. Stuff sounds better in a quieter room.

I have a 140 KvA stabilizer for the entire house. Would I need a power conditioner on top of this?

Probably you could do more, especially for audio equipment, and especially in this city. Stabilisers (servo?) take time to react to voltage changes, and they are not necessarily cleaning the power at all. It's something that I'd actually like to spend money on, except that, in just the time it has taken to write and edit this post, I have already become addicted to hookers and blow. Thanks anetode!  :money:

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