Topic: Rag/Yggy (Read 17721 times)

Maxvla · « **on:** March 24, 2014, 12:22:12 AM »

Thought it would be good to have a central location for Rag/Yggy thoughts as their development progresses and they are released and reviewed. Currently they are all spread out and hard to find. Please feel free to post your thoughts if you have heard either of these devices.

--

Bay Area meet - can't find much, just Marv playing coy:

Quote from: purrin

Last time I gave listening impressions on a Schiit prototype / development unit, i.e. the Mjolnir, and mentioned Jason and his crew intended on voicing it (tweaking the sound) further before production, some people got all weird on me, called me names, and said this "voicing" thing I speak of was BS. Therefore I'm not sure I want to say anything before the production or a close to production pre-production unit is out.

--

OC Meet

Quote from: Greed

The Rag was either not ready or not for me. Honestly it was kind of disappointing.

Quote from: Bourne

Greed: HD800 on the Rag-or something else? What source?

Quote from: Greed

@Daniel - HD800, Gungnir I believe

Quote from: Greed

It was just way to wonky. The pairing is not very good. So that tempted me to try the LCD-3 which was also kind of weird. It was just too lively, too energetic. Sounded a lot like the MJ tbh

Quote from: Greed

I believe OJ and Marv had similar thoughts

Quote from: Tari

They still have time to tune it, and they are one of the few companies that will go back to the drawing board from thoughts like that instead of telling you "no, its good, you just can't appreciate it." At least I would hope they'd do this with their flagship.

Quote from: OJneg

It was definitely aggressive sounding. I listened for a few minutes with the HD800 (modded) and handed it to Marv. He lasted about 15 seconds.

Quote from: OJneg

Could be the Gung, but we didn't think so

Quote from: burns

I'll be slightly contrarian about Rag: I liked it. It didn't knock my socks off, but I think it will be competitive at the price point.

Quote from: Anax

K, the Rag was a finished prototype in that the circuit and software is now complete and ready from a functional standpoint. It is still essentially the same sounding prototype from RMAF that is now safe for consumer use and proof of concept. The golden sample board and final BoM have not yet been assembled and tuned/voiced. Much of the sound will be refined just in this next step. This unit is the final production PROTOtype, not the actual shipping final production unit at all. So don't fret yet. Final work on the Rag will be coming fast though to my understanding. I would venture to say Jason was not showing it for folks to get a feel for the sound of the amp but rather to see if he would be getting feedback in other operational areas many were content with as expressed through their complicit silence. I think we all might have been punkd by Jason a bit lol.

Quote from: OJneg on March 23, 2014, 11:08:37 PM

Many laughs were had listening to the Rag and talking to the Schiit guys. Not sure if Marv wants to divulge but I was amused

--

Quote from: Amos

Holy Schiit! The Ragnarok almost didn't make it to the show, but thankfully the guys fought through frustration to get the prototype working. The sound was very good, very no-amp-there-just-music, effortlessly powering the LCD-X and HD-800s. I had a long chat with the guys who had put in a lot of effort to set up a bunch of tables with gear.

OJneg · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2014, 12:33:00 AM »

Me and my big mouth...

Marvey · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2014, 12:34:24 AM »

I was under the mistaken notion that this was "the" production amp, but it wasn't. I don't know how I got that idea. Nevertheless, I think Jason and Mike got plenty of feedback. OJ's observations of me not surviving the experience with the HD800 (modded) for more than 15 seconds was essentially correct. I didn't like the LCD3 with it either. However I found my tweaked Abyss quite suitable.

Despite the harshness, or hearing past the harshness, there's definitely an ease of and presentation and liquid quality. More clarity and less confusion compared to the Mojo. While I don't expect Schiit to dial back on the amp so much that it sounds pleasant and forgiving (that doesn't seem to be their house sound); but I would expect them to make quite a few tweaks given my similar experience with the Mojo where the early pre-productions were also very aggressive sounding. (I ended up buying the production Mojo, so go figure.) There's already more bass than the last time I heard it at the Bay Area (same Abyss, same recordings, same DAC.)

I think Jason has gotten plenty of feedback and I really don't want to tell him how to voice him amp other than I like it or I don't like it and for X and Y reasons.

Maxvla · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2014, 12:41:28 AM »

Yes, Marv, I was really looking forward to impressions at this meet because I was under the same impression that this was the final tuning and that production was about to ramp up for delivery next month. My comment of 'that's troubling' in chat was partly due to the negative comments, but also that this might delay it again.

burnspbesq · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2014, 12:45:39 AM »

I'm always hesitant to draw conclusions based on listening to Schiit gear under show conditions, because they never have any music on their laptops that I'm even remotely familiar with. Yesterday was better than usual: at least there were a couple of Talking Heads tracks.

That said, the one strong impression from a few minutes with the Rag yesterday: that sucker is QUICK. And not at all laid back. On "The Lady Don't Mind," the congas were crisp, and the brass had real bite.

The size of the box is an issue for me, but I'm definitely interested in spending more time with it once it's in commercial production.

Greed · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2014, 12:49:56 AM »

I took a listen and wasn't impressed with its presentation. It just didn't pair well with either the LCD-3 or HD800. Both were played through the Gungnir. I wasn't aware that tuning was still needed. I thought I remember Jason commenting on HF that this Rag at the meet was a full production unit, ready to go... guess not. I'm actually glad to hear that because from what I heard yesterday, I think I would be passing on it.

Sound was just unnatural to me. Vocals were wonky, and I immediately was getting fatigue out of the HD800. I did like the bass which seemed very well defined and had plenty of slam. I think the trouble areas is the upper mids and treble. If they can dial it down some, I think it would be fine. Overall I was expecting something a bit more neutral and balanced sounding, maybe even a little more musical. Right now it is just a more refined MJ with some improvements but not enough IMO.

Maxvla · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2014, 12:55:28 AM »

So far all the negative comments seem to match my criticisms of the Gungnir with HD800s and any amp as was pointed out in the chat log. I'm not sure if the Rag itself needs any further tuning. It seems to be letting through exactly what it's being fed.

And just so there's more than text here's a picture of what I assume to be final metal/graphics:

Looks nice, though size is starting to get quite large as it dwarfs the already large Gungnir next to it.

Jason, will the Rag and Yggy be stackable? Temps/interference a problem?

schiit · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2014, 12:55:53 AM »

Yep, this one was the first fully functional Ragnarok with the first cosmetic sheetmetal. We've currently shown three versions:

1. RMAF: very screwed up, unstable software, might have been running 500mA bias or 5ma depending on time of day/phase of moon, running old gain stage which we abandoned, single transformer for all rails.

2. Norcal: finally stable software/bias, achieved literally a day before the show. Running entirely new gain stage, two transformers for circlotron outputs and HV rails now, but HV rail transformer was undersized and running out of regulation. SE outputs disabled so we didn't have to deal with them.

3. OC: some tweaks to the software, same gain stage, new transformer for HV rails that's much bigger than the old one, has plenty of regulation, SE outputs in place and functional, but still flying parts off the board.

What's left, after I build the final boards--which I started last week, and will be complete this week:

1. Compensation. The amp was compensated roughly to be stable, but no additional work was done to optimize out of band/open loop performance. This is probably the biggest thing that will happen to change the sonic character of the amp, other than improvements in the boards themselves.

2. New feedback. The feedback routing/switching of the current board is (ahem) less than optimal, and we added more relays so we could significantly shorten and streamline the paths. I think we're now up to 30 relays.

3. Decision on MOSFET vs bipolar regulators for HV rails--we made this change before the OC meet, and if the Norcal version sounded sweeter, this could have something to do with it.

4. Small tweaks to operational points.

5. Final software: add speaker only/headphone only/both switching. No sonic effect expected, though the prototype was not running the control board shield for the sake of time, so it was spraying noise through the chassis.

schiit · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2014, 01:16:29 AM »

And, actually, while I'm at it, the full status on Ragnarok, and some other things:

1. Ragnarok. I still think we'll be taking orders in April. However, the way orders are done will be different than other products. This is more of a "craft build" product, so lead time after the order will be 2-3 weeks, rather than shipping from stock. This is to save space in the shop, and to give us time for 4 days of burn-in, rather than 1 day on other products. Boards are in-house. Metal is in-house, except the bottom chassis, and I believe we only have a partial run on the tops.

2. Yggdrasil. Ragnarok burned our code resources for a while, but now all effort is on finalizing implementation of the only closed-form digital filter on the planet. Hardware has been in place for a while. It will have our all-new "pivot point" balanced current-feedback topology for the analog stage, which has been running for some time. Marv and Mike have heard the analog stage in a different form in an as-yet unreleased product. I expect you'll be seeing it at shows soon.

3. Everything else. Unlike last year, this will be an aggressive year for new products, so expect to see several things launching simultaneously with Ragnarok and Yggdrasil, in the low-to-medium price brackets. Including one product near the end of the year that will be a complete surprise. Beyond that, I have to be coy--but I can say that we haven't been sitting on our hands here.

OJneg · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2014, 01:27:59 AM »

My CD case is going to be immortalized.

Author Topic: Rag/Yggy (Read 17721 times)

Maxvla

Rag/Yggy

OJneg

Re: Rag/Yggy

Marvey

Re: Rag/Yggy

Maxvla

Re: Rag/Yggy

burnspbesq

Re: Rag/Yggy

Greed

Re: Rag/Yggy

Maxvla

Re: Rag/Yggy

schiit

Re: Rag/Yggy

schiit

Re: Rag/Yggy

OJneg

Re: Rag/Yggy

(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});

Author Topic: Rag/Yggy (Read 17721 times)