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Author Topic: Invicta review  (Read 7740 times)

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Anaxilus.

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Invicta review
« on: April 05, 2013, 07:51:57 AM »

Invicta v. PWD mk2 (via Super7 > HD800)

PWD Mk2 - Day 1 - Filter 1

Swings more from top to bottom, more sparkle extension and low bass growl.  Better punch and transients.  Better timbral distinction between instruments.  I wonder if the better dynamics compromise the imaging by comparison as instruments are more prone to overlap spaces due to sounding bigger.  Sometimes too much pop and impact to notes makes it harder for the brain to relax and just soak up ambient cues for easy listening.  Notes are more layered and harmonically rich but instruments are more sonically forward.  The PWD is more like being on stage.  Demands your attention at all times, not a very good work DAC for background music.  So far, compared to the higher end SABRE DACs, space seems to be less wide with less separation mostly because things are more forward.
Just sounds more real as instruments and performers that sound different sound more distinctive and tonally accurate. 

Day 2
Better depth, layering, holography, and deeper blackness from where sounds emerge. Richer, more vivid audio ‘color’ tones.  More involved booty shaking.  Actually quite a bit more micro detail/plankton than Invicta.  Surprising.  XSabre might have more as well but much closer to the Invicta.  Pretty much beats the Invicta all around except for soundstage width and separation.  Overall smoother as well unless one selects the more compressed filters on the Invicta.

Invicta – Day 1 - Stock settings Sabre/Fast filter

Better spatial width and imaging placement to hear more macro stuff and air between instruments.  Better soundstage depth (not layering), less forward than the PWD but it’s on a linear plane.  Some notes seem softer and fuzzier than PWD but treble seems more fatiguing/biting in certain upper frequency bands and less smooth than PWD which is less warm yet more smooth and extended in the treble.  Invicta cymbals hurt, crashes seem to really crash like a car rather than an instrument.  Dynamically between the PWD and XSabre.  Better for more polite listening.  Invicta is more front few rows in the audience.  Better for getting work done, background listening yet still focus when you want to.
Snares and Toms on the Invicta sound more wooden w/ ‘Tom Sawyer’. Notes cut off more sharply/clip but they are fuzzier which adds warmth.  The added benefit of space and separation is losing its charm with this tonal character.  Best I can say is an overlaid warmth on top of a wooden type of digititus.  Where the XSabre had a hidden grain under the warmth, the Invicta has a sort of snappy wooden bite to things which should be more organic and natural sounding like metal cymbal decay and skins on drums.
Runs hotter than Hades.  I recommend the Invicta be paired w/ the Bryston BHA-1 for anyone looking to burn down their house.  Not sure I’d recommend it for an HD800 that already accentuates the upper mids unless you prefer the overly smooth filters.

Day 2 – Linear/Apodizing filter

Still better separation and space.  Really helps w/ continuity of reverb.  So far, the strength of the SABRE DACs I’ve heard along w/ the XSabre.  Definitely a better work/relaxation DAC.  Less resolving than PWD according Vivaldi’s Aston Magna.  Not sure if it’s more resolving than the XSABRE, could be on par or even less.

Invicta Filter test (semi-blind/no reading of manual for setting descriptions):

Sabre/fast-digital sounding, disjointed and dry harmonics compared to the Linear/fast roll setting.  Pretty crispy for a $4,000 DAC on this setting.  Makes it sound cheaper and quite fatiguing.
Sabre/slow-too compressed dynamically, sound flatter and forgiving.
Minimum phase IIR (2/ 3)-Very smooth, perhaps smoothest setting that sounds ‘correct’.  Flatter dynamically than my preferred Linear phase settings, but more polite for people that prefer that presentation.  Space and separation is not as fleshed out as the better settings and not compromised as much as the others.  Just short of PTFE sounding but still textured. 
Minimum/slow-overly smooth, too forgiving.  Audezed.  Wall of smooth sound/2D.
Linear Apodizing (1)-more dynamic and less compressed than the SABRE-slow, decent smoothness and preservation of harmonic richness compared to SABRE slow.  Less precise than Linear/fast roll.  Excellent space, separation and imaging while still being dynamic, resolving and somewhat smooth.
Linear phase/fast roll-best separation, harmonic richness (detail) and resolution, most accurate and precise but drier and crispier presentation and tone.  Notes have the clearest articulation.  Just too dry, thin and analytical on HD800.
Linear phase/slow (2/3)-sound smooth yet articulate in between the Apodizing and fast Linear settings. Best compromise of timbre and technicalities.

Integrated amp comparison v. Super 7
A little more blended, loses some of the DAC’s technical advantage for separation.  There is more of a hint of scratchy treble and upper mid sibilance than Super 7 (even w/ my preferred Invicta filter that is as smooth as I’d go before wrecking the source material).  Bass is softer, bloomier, and less tight.  Sound signature is more in your face and forward than Super 7.  Less ambient cues, detail (macro and micro) and less articulation of transients between notes.  Overall, the integrated amp is pretty good, but not good enough for the HD800’s abilities IMHO.  Better for mid-tier to lower level ToTL dyanmics.  Sounds better w/ my HE5 than the HD800 (less composed).  Super7 still sounds technically better w/ the HE5 than the Invicta’s amp which is warmer.

SDXC Card versus USB-SDCard is noticeably a bit cleaner and clearer using the HD800 + Super7 rather than fed from PC/USB w/ USB 2.0 Tachyon drivers.

Conclusion:
PWD makes you want to pick up an instrument or get moving, Invicta is for slippers and smoking jackets by comparison.  It is not laid back compared to an EMM Labs DAC2, so it’s more involving than that nonsense.  For some, the Invicta might just be the perfect balance for how a recording should be portrayed to what they are accustomed to.  For me, the PWD is how a live performance sounds with real instruments which is actually more faithful to the recording and the performer.  I think some might be more used to how typical recorded tracks sound compared to live performances which actually diminishes the attributes of an excellent recording. One of the better integrated all-in-one DAC/Amps I’ve heard but not sure about the price tag.  For the price I might prefer a NAD M51+DHSA1 or some comparable rig.  The Invicta also wins the coveted “Not Shit” award jointly for sound and especially for versatility.  I am fond of the smaller size and competence of its SDXC capability over PC>USB.  For a transportable listening rig with minimal baggage, it is a winner on performance, size and versatility but the price requires special justification IMO.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 07:52:13 AM »

« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 02:27:44 PM by purrin »
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 07:52:26 AM »

COMMENTS BY LFF:

Not bad...not amazing...

However, I will be happy to award the Invicta, the first ever, 3 (out of 5) Star Changstar Seal of Approval from myself...


To get a seal, a product must essentially not be shit and earn at least 3 out of 5 stars.

The Good:

1) Decent sound
2) Unique features
3) Nice spatial width

The Bad:
1) A bit bass heavy at times along with harsh treble
2) Imaging not as precise
3) Lacks spatial definition and depth

The Ugly:
1) THE FREAKIN' PRICE!!!!

The Ideal:
This would have better bass and  treble presentation with a better smooth filter. Add in those features and price this out to $800 - $1200, and you have a much better thing. At least it's not shit broken like the Mytek.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 04:44:43 PM by LFF »
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 07:52:37 AM »

COMMENTS BY ULTRABIKE:

Tone:
The Invicta is brighter and harsher in the tremble than the PWD DAC. The Invicta is also relatively a bit bass heavy and bloated. The Invicta is not horrible, but the differences are obvious enough. The Invicta should best be avoided with ear drilling bright equipment in the audio chain.

Detail Extraction:
The PWD DAC is a much more capable DAC than the Invicta in the detail extraction department.  Certain passages that were clear with the PWD DAC where a bit lost with the Invicta. Instrument and vocals separation was much better on the PWD DAC than on the Invicta.

Soundstage:
Both the PWD DAC and the Invicta provided remarkable soundstage.

Portability:
This is where the Invicta wins hands down.

General observations:
Strings attack where obviously superior out of the PWD than the Invicta. Cimbals, sticks, and percussion instruments sounded more accurate out of the PWD. That is not to say that the Invicta is a bad DAC. It is actually quite enjoyable, but IMO the differences between the Invicta and the PWD where not subtle enough to justify the Invicta's commanding price.

The Invicta definitively wins NOT poo award in the < $1500 price range.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 06:59:28 PM by ultrabike »
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Maxvla

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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 08:19:57 AM »

Interesting. I think we may be on to something regarding how some of us like the PWD and some (ok mostly me) like the X-Sabre/Concero (and apparently Invicta). You mention how the PWD sort of keeps things bundled up tighter which is how you hear live recordings. For me, having grown up playing in an orchestra for most of my life, I'm used to a hundred distinct sound sources all around me. I crave the thinner and more separated sound because that is what sounds right to me. When I can make out these individual sound sources, I feel like I'm looking through the stands and chairs from where I'm sitting to see the oboe soloist, etc. When I can't get that distinct directional information, or it is all too crowded it feels like a recording rather than close to real.

To be honest, listening to classical orchestral recordings is difficult. I'm used to being in the orchestra, not the audience, so when I hear violins from the LEFT instead of the RIGHT it bothers me, but simply switching channels won't work because of how stereo is produced.

I also think we need to clarify our use of relaxing. The X-Sabre relaxes me by giving me that extreme separation, so that I don't have to work so hard to do it myself. It doesn't roll off the treble to make bad recordings more palatable, as the term 'relaxing' is commonly used regarding frequency response. I mean it quite literally, it takes a load off my mind and I can enjoy the sound so much more because of it.

Disappointed to hear about the bad cymbals and the woody tones. Makes me think I would like the X-Sabre over the Invicta as a pure DAC.

Looking forward to the other's input.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 09:41:23 AM »

Just to be clear, because it may be confusing, while you may get more separation, the imaging is fuzzier.  So don't confuse space w/ imaging precision.  I actually deleted a line where I discussed getting the same sort of separation and space using purrin's Marantz CD5004 as a transport via coax.  So it should be noted that even at the DAC, there are still potential upstream considerations that could impact the signature.

A few more points to consider:

1-My critical review was w/ my HD800 rig, the others listened using purrin's speaker rig as did I but I won't be commenting on that observation directly.

2-Both the Invicta and PWD were used solely with USB since I do not have a BNC Coax around atm.  So I was not able to compare my primary CD transport via coax as I did w/ the XSabre.
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firev1

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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 03:27:33 PM »

Sounds pretty expensive for a amp that is comparable to the X-Sabre. Was the HD800 driven balanced directly from the Invicta at any point of time? Some words on that would be interesting. The integrated amp is a 9016 chip iirc for its dac.
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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 06:03:33 PM »

I'll follow up with the Invicta later today. Gotta make sushi as I promised my daughter for her birthday.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 07:57:12 PM »

Sounds pretty expensive for a amp that is comparable to the X-Sabre. Was the HD800 driven balanced directly from the Invicta at any point of time? Some words on that would be interesting. The integrated amp is a 9016 chip iirc for its dac.


How do you drive it balanced from an Invicta?  You want me to run alligator clips and wires between the line out and my headphone jack in some hope it will beat my Super7?  I would consider any product setup like that a  poo product.
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Re: Invicta review
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2013, 08:36:05 PM »

Sounds pretty expensive for a amp that is comparable to the X-Sabre. Was the HD800 driven balanced directly from the Invicta at any point of time? Some words on that would be interesting. The integrated amp is a 9016 chip iirc for its dac.


How do you drive it balanced from an Invicta?  You want me to run alligator clips and wires between the line out and my headphone jack in some hope it will beat my Super7?  I would consider any product setup like that a  poo product.

You will need to get an adapter made ending in a dual 6.35mm jack termination. Then you need to set the mode to "differential". End setup should look something like this: link

I guess the integrated amp can justify some of the high price tag... for the lazy.

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