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Author Topic: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)  (Read 25845 times)

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maverickronin

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2012, 10:18:24 PM »
Quote from: gurubhai on May 15, 2012, 10:09:44 AM

What wrong with using digital volume control, esp. to you objectivists?

Well some people just don't like it on principle so I thought it would be worth mentioning just for that.

It can have some other easily verifiable issues though.  Mostly it just raises the noise floor and I'm pretty OCD about about background hiss.  Unless you have a DAC with an exceptionally low noise floor it can start to add up.  I use EQ and DSPs on my home rig and those all require reducing the gain digitally to avoid clipping and piling on extra digital attenuation for volume control can easily expose the noise floor, especially if you use sensitive headphones.

Quote from: purrin on May 15, 2012, 04:58:25 PM

Putting the pot after the voltage gain stage was probably not a good idea to being with given that the complications from it (what you are experiencing with a hot source) aren't worth the extra few db less noise which was inaudible in the first place. It's kind of like those guys who spend tons of gold pieces and hours or playing in WoW to get 27 more HP.

Whether you hear the noise of not really depends on what headphones you're using.  IEMs can get a lot more efficient than the UERMs.

Also I'm wondering where all these extra hot sources are coming from.  The "standard" low gain for the O2 is 2.5x and on AC you should need more than 2.8Vrms to make it clip which is pretty far from any standard that I'm aware of.  I suppose NwAvGuy underestimated how much some of this boutique stuff varies.
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donunus

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2012, 01:06:01 AM »
What I don't get is that It clips with the line out of the e10 dac/amp. Its a small device that shouldn't really be giving that much voltage to begin with. I think the clipping point may actually be below 2V on the O2.
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Marvey

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2012, 02:29:49 AM »
Quote from: maverickronin on May 15, 2012, 10:18:24 PM
Whether you hear the noise of not really depends on what headphones you're using.  IEMs can get a lot more efficient than the UERMs.

Also I'm wondering where all these extra hot sources are coming from.  The "standard" low gain for the O2 is 2.5x and on AC you should need more than 2.8Vrms to make it clip which is pretty far from any standard that I'm aware of.  I suppose NwAvGuy underestimated how much some of this boutique stuff varies.

LOL, I don't think it matters if the noise goes from an already great -106db (using a traditional pot layout) vs. -112db (putting the pot after the gain stage). The noise level with traditional pot placement should be more than good enough for the most sensitive of all headphones and IEMs (the W3000's I have are more sensitive than the UERMs.) Looking back at it, it's not worth it putting the pot there. Engineering is weighing the pros and cons and building in safety margins for stupid or unexpected stuff. The cons of putting the pot after the gain stage are greater than the benefits (which are imperceptible) given that the design is already solid.

@Donunus: do you know if the low gain is actually set to 2.5db on your unit (check resistors)? Also, are you running battery power or AC?
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maverickronin

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2012, 04:28:27 AM »
Quote from: donunus on May 16, 2012, 01:06:01 AM
What I don't get is that It clips with the line out of the e10 dac/amp. Its a small device that shouldn't really be giving that much voltage to begin with. I think the clipping point may actually be below 2V on the O2.

The E10's output is only supposed to be 1.6Vrms so you might want to find out what the gains on your O2 are actually set to.

Quote from: purrin on May 16, 2012, 02:29:49 AM
LOL, I don't think it matters if the noise goes from an already great -106db (using a traditional pot layout) vs. -112db (putting the pot after the gain stage). The noise level with traditional pot placement should be more than good enough for the most sensitive of all headphones and IEMs (the W3000's I have are more sensitive than the UERMs.) Looking back at it, it's not worth it putting the pot there. Engineering is weighing the pros and cons and building in safety margins for stupid or unexpected stuff. The cons of putting the pot after the gain stage are greater than the benefits (which are imperceptible) given that the design is already solid.

Do you know how accurate the official specs for the W3000ANV and UERM are?  UE even seems to have changed what was on their website.  I remember it used to say 107dB/mW
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donunus

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2012, 05:51:49 AM »
Quote from: purrin on May 16, 2012, 02:29:49 AM

@Donunus: do you know if the low gain is actually set to 2.5db on your unit (check resistors)? Also, are you running battery power or AC?

Quote from: maverickronin on May 16, 2012, 04:28:27 AM

The E10's output is only supposed to be 1.6Vrms so you might want to find out what the gains on your O2 are actually set to.


Its not my O2 so I don't really want to open or tinker with it but at low gain mode, i don't have clipping problems. Its just the high gain that clips when playing hot recordings.

I was using AC power when testing.
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gurubhai

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2012, 07:22:45 AM »
I suggest to use replaygain which would automatically attenuate 'hot' recordings.

With most modern DACs, you would have some leeway before you start listening into DAC's noise floor.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 07:38:33 AM by gurubhai »
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donunus

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2012, 07:36:29 AM »
nah I'm fine with just using low gain for those recordings instead of replaygain. That takes too much time and takes the authenticity out of the recordings hehehe
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donunus

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2012, 08:09:47 AM »
Oh Purrin, I just realized that even when plugged in I am still using the battery power unless i take them out right. Is that correct?
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maverickronin

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2012, 08:28:34 AM »
No.  It charges and increases to voltage supplied to the opamps whenever it's plugged in.
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omegakitty

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Re: COMPARISON: Objective 2, CHA47, and Leckerton UHS-6)
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2012, 12:33:19 AM »
Anyone compared the O2 to a Gilmore Lite? I'll see if I have some free time to build one of these
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