Topic: Crossfeed, how? (Read 10629 times)

donunus · « **Reply #20 on:** April 29, 2013, 12:57:04 AM »

Quote from: purrin on March 28, 2013, 03:53:26 PM

The only software based crossfeed I've liked (and actually used) is the built-in one for headphones in JRiver MC. I like it because pretty much every other software (and some hardware) based crossfeeds tend to mess up the frequency response.

You can DL a demo of JRiver MC to try it. It's not free. It's a product you have to pay for and I think it shows. (Free plug-in = 85% fail, 15% success) I've met and have continued to talk with Matt Ashland, CTO over at JRiver. They are serious about sound quality (and extremely good at numbers and algorithms) there.

Earlier I thought the other plugins were a little better but I noticed when using different headphones, the one on jrmc 18 ended up becoming the most natural sounding one to me. Everyone should definitely give this plugin a try.

AstralStorm · « **Reply #21 on:** April 29, 2013, 01:19:03 AM »

Yep, BS2b is one of the best crossfeeds out there. Its main drawback is that it sometimes makes some bass notes sound hollow.

The other crossfeed is some special Foobar2000 plugin written by a guy who doesn't want to share the algorithm - it contains an allpass to correct remaining phase issues from the IIR filter and doesn't have the problem BS2b has, while still remaining nice an smooth. Also can crossfeed high frequencies too.

donunus · « **Reply #22 on:** May 02, 2013, 01:24:22 AM »

After a few days of the JRMC plugin, I still go back to the Isone "mimimal" setting. Its just the most natural sounding xfeed I've tried so far.

donunus · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2013, 04:25:58 AM »

the bass does get a little bloated but it doesnt get veiled like bs2B. The only deciding factor for turning the plugin on or off for me is whether i can deal with the extra bass on the particular headphone being used.

EDIT: And once again the subtle setting in the JRiver crossfeed wins after days of listening.

XRG1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2013, 06:01:02 PM »

Personally I waffle between the Isone plugins and The RPGWizard Dolby headphone config over on hf. The wizards config seems to be the least intrusive of any plug in.

AstralStorm · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2013, 07:18:45 PM »

BS2B doesn't veil the bass or highs. What it does is cutting highs (> corner frequency) some dB.
The bass might get cut if it's inverse phase - it's rare, but can happen.

My personal settings: 1480 Hz, 1,37 dB feed.

donunus · « **Reply #26 on:** August 26, 2013, 12:30:36 PM »

Until now, I still prefer the subtle setting on JRiver's native crossfeed circuit best. By the way, a question to Jriver users... Do you guys turn on the clip protection setting or the flat line overflow setting in the dsp manager. I sort of don't like the idea of the player normalizing the music depending on how loud it is yet I also don't want clipping on my music. So far I haven't noticed anything nasty so I have been using the flat line overflow setting myself.

donunus · « **Reply #27 on:** August 26, 2013, 12:53:31 PM »

^^Oh and I do realize that the standard setting has a more natural soundstage but the subtle setting is just enough to tighten up the imaging without feeling that its changing the perspective of the headphones so much. In classical operas for example switching between standard and crossfeed off makes the recording sound like you are among the audience with the standard setting then feels more immediate and pure with crossfeed off. The imaging is screwy with the crossfeed off though vs the standard setting. This is where the subtle setting comes in. I feel it is just enough to not touch the original instrument or vocal timbres too much while filling in the soundstage a little just enough to have a less blobby sound.

Of course, the feeling of being in the hall is quite nice regardless of whether it changes the tonality of the headphone a little which is why the standard setting is also great. Subtle/Standard either way, this crossfeed is still less colored than any others i have ever tried.

donunus · « **Reply #28 on:** August 26, 2013, 01:40:33 PM »

The annoying thing about crossfeed though is that there is not one plugin so far that I have heard no matter how good it is that can sound better than using no crossfeed at all on every single song. For the classical music I was listening to earlier for example, crossfeed was great in fact I even used the pronounced setting and the instruments sounded bolder and more focused but then now I am playing an ambient electronic classical CD (Zinovia) and no crossfeed on just has the most focused sound with the best timbre. hmm to add to the complication... different cans also have different synergy with the crossfeed plugins. This hobby will just make me crazy if I think about it too much LOL I should go back to listening to the music now

AstralStorm · « **Reply #29 on:** August 27, 2013, 07:23:45 AM »

I've been trying to solve this issue - this was usually due to center channel being crossfed to itself with time delay, causing comb filtering (like 0-speed phaser) for mono signals, where it shouldn't happen. (unless room acoustics are involved, which crossfeeds don't emulate)
With BS2B, this effect is mild, but that crossfeed has way too short feeding time delay, which is also not adjustable. It also has wrong phase in bass, which causes major problems with phase inverse (or nearly so) bass and can make bass sound slow.
Xnor's foobar2000 DSP on the other hand has major comb filtering artifact due to the time delay, esp. at higher values. Similarly the other foobar2000 one.

None of the above is linear for mono or correlated stereo signals.

The URL:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1054.msg28879.html#msg28879

For now, the crossfeed is picky about the VST host - needs GUI provided by it. I'll resolve that eventually.

Author Topic: Crossfeed, how? (Read 10629 times)

donunus

Re: Crossfeed, how?

AstralStorm

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donunus

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donunus

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XRG1

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AstralStorm

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donunus

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donunus

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donunus

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AstralStorm

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Author Topic: Crossfeed, how? (Read 10629 times)

XRG1