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Author Topic: The Turntable Thread  (Read 45113 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #260 on: July 21, 2015, 07:17:13 PM »

I wish they would just start making 1200s again.  Not sure why they stopped.  I guess the profit wasn't there anymore?  They must still have the tools/dies and whatever else is needed.

I think it was a combination of competition from cheaper Chinese tables, plus digital tables for the DJ market that did the SL-1200 in. It was never hugely popular for the home market, particularly in the west which always looked down on DDs, even during their '70s and '80s golden era. Rightly or wrongly, belt drives were always considered superior for audiophiles, never mind the fact that tables like the Exclusive or the Kenwood L-07D would eat Sondeks and Pink Triangles for breakfast. Most of them were never exported.
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OJneg

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #261 on: July 22, 2015, 12:48:18 AM »

SL1200 is better than pretty much all the low to mid-end belt drives from Rega, Pro-ject, etc. So if they could bring it back then it would give folks solid direct drive option. And like you mentioned their DD motors could be put into higher-end choice akin to the SP10 to match with modern arms.
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DaveBSC

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #262 on: July 22, 2015, 03:46:48 AM »

SL1200 is better than pretty much all the low to mid-end belt drives from Rega, Pro-ject, etc. So if they could bring it back then it would give folks solid direct drive option. And like you mentioned their DD motors could be put into higher-end choice akin to the SP10 to match with modern arms.

Better than the RP1 and Debut Carbon yes. I don't love the RP3 either, but a bone stock SL against a Pro-Ject RPM 3 Carbon might have a tough time on its hands.

I'm curious how the new Onkyo DD will do. It's yet another shameless Hanpin rebadge, with an idiotic choice of carts and sloppy QC, and seems mostly designed to appeal to people looking for that '70s look without wanting to buy an actual, and FAR superior '70s era table. If enough morons buy that piece of crap, maybe Technics might be convinced to bring back the real thing.
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Anaxilus

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #263 on: July 22, 2015, 04:18:01 AM »

Tell you what. From all the videos I've seen, the Super OEM DD motor seems superior to the SL1200 (assuming it lasts). Superior torque figures all around for one. At this point, that's all I'm interested in. I can deal with platters, plinths and arms on my own. That's how I see it.
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DaveBSC

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #264 on: July 22, 2015, 06:06:20 AM »

Tell you what. From all the videos I've seen, the Super OEM DD motor seems superior to the SL1200 (assuming it lasts). Superior torque figures all around for one. At this point, that's all I'm interested in. I can deal with platters, plinths and arms on my own. That's how I see it.

Interesting. Has anybody put together a high-end table using that motor, ala the Garrard 301?

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Anaxilus

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #265 on: July 22, 2015, 06:34:21 AM »

Not that I know of, but that's the direction I'm looking to go. It was either that or a SP10 rebuild which seemed more $$ and complex in the long run. I suppose it depends on your priorities.

Here's a comparison of the SL1200 DD motor v. a Reloop (Super OEM) DD motor. Apples to Apples.

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drfindley

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #266 on: August 05, 2015, 07:24:28 PM »

OK, here's some dummy questions as I'm digging deep into this:

1: Between my Rega RP6/Ortofon Black cartidge and my Rega Fono MM pre-amp, there is a very high noise floor. I've tried some other preamps (notably all cheap) and it the noise doesn't go away. Is that a cartridge issue or is that a I have only tried cheap pre-amps?

2: My Yggy sounds considerably better than my setup. Is a MC cartridge the best way to level up here? And does that require a complete replacement of my tonearm? And if that's the case, I should probably get another table (yay, more tables!).

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DaveBSC

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #267 on: August 05, 2015, 08:26:03 PM »

OK, here's some dummy questions as I'm digging deep into this:

1: Between my Rega RP6/Ortofon Black cartidge and my Rega Fono MM pre-amp, there is a very high noise floor. I've tried some other preamps (notably all cheap) and it the noise doesn't go away. Is that a cartridge issue or is that a I have only tried cheap pre-amps?

2: My Yggy sounds considerably better than my setup. Is a MC cartridge the best way to level up here? And does that require a complete replacement of my tonearm? And if that's the case, I should probably get another table (yay, more tables!).

From what I've read at least, the Fono MM is pretty good as far as MM preamps go. The fixed 100pF loading is a bit under what Ortofon recommends for the 2M series (150-300) but the additional capacitance from the cable would likely be enough to push you up into that range, and in any case, shouldn't account for the noise floor issue.

Rega arms are typically good with around 4-11g carts, and the 2M Black is right in the middle there, 7.2g. My first guess would probably be that your problem is VTA. The 2M Black uses a Shibata stylus that's very sensitive to VTA, and since Rega's attitude to VTA adjustment is "lulz, what's that?" you'll need a shim if you don't already have one. I believe Ortofon recommends a 3.2mm shim, but you can check with them.

Other than that, re-check your alignment. You could definitely beat the 2M Black with something like a Miyajima Takumi or Goldring Legacy MC, but those will obviously require a new Phono pre, and high-end, low output MCs demand a good one. Figure on at LEAST something like a MS Phonomena. And if you're going to do all THAT, you might maaaaybe think about changing tables instead. Keep the Black, keep the Rega Fono, and maybe try something like a Funk Firm LSD?
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Anaxilus

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #268 on: August 05, 2015, 09:02:43 PM »

An AT95 or MLA440 MM cart can sound equal to or better than the Yggy. You have an issue(s) somewhere else. No idea how the Ortofon Black sounds.
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Marvey

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #269 on: August 05, 2015, 09:16:12 PM »


My Yggy sounds considerably better than my setup. Is a MC cartridge the best way to level up here? And does that require a complete replacement of my tonearm? And if that's the case, I should probably get another table (yay, more tables!).


MC cart, until you realize that a better tonearm is needed to take advantage of the resolution of cart that you choose, then pre-amp since you realize your old pre-amp was crap, then you start hearing motor and/or bearing noise which means better table (motor, bearings), then you realize you need better blackness, so a precision motor to control RPM or a massive plinth and/or platter. Then you realize you need special wires from the cart to your phono-pre. Then you want super expensive transformers on your phono-pre to get the last bits of low-level information. Then you start all over again.

I do not recommend taking the path of vinyl.

Also, you'll discover your own preferences and hit dead-ends were you will need to do turn-arounds: direct drive or belt drive, long or not so long tonearms or linear tracking, heavy or light tonearms, appropriate carts to go with the tonearms, suspension or heavy mass, etc. There are advantages and disadvantages to each approach. Some approaches start off better, but don't scale as much once you get into uber-land.

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