CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 12:06:51 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic: How-To Make Good Needledrops  (Read 1551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Chris F

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +20/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 159
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2015, 02:37:35 PM »

One of my DJ buddies asked me how I normalize my needledrops so I thought I would put my answer here as well since it seems relevant to the discussion. :)

(BTW if a pro mastering engineer type (does Bob Katz read changstar?) happens to pass through and has comments or better ideas I would love to hear them)

Anyhow, conventional wisdom would simply have you normalize to 0 (or -0.03) dbFS and be done with it however you will find that with needledrops you are invariably going to end up with some big ass transients few of which will be much larger then anything in the recording.  If you are playing your drops back to back in a playlist (or set) vs modern masters they are often several dB quieter because of this.  In extreme cases they can be as much as 6dB RMS lower or even more.

To offset this without smashing the dynamic range what I do is gain everything up just past the point where the biggest transients clip. The goal is to get maybe 100-200 or so overs in each channel (in iZotope RX4 use alt-D to bring up the loudness info/over calculations window) which usually ends up being somewhere between +0.75 and +3dBfs on the louder of the two channels.  If you end up in the thousands or a single clipped interval ends up being >100 samples or so you need to dial it back.  It will probably take you a few tries to dial in a number you are comfortable with.

Once you are happy and have the waveform just barely clipping you use the "Declip" function in RX4 set at -0.1dBFS threshold to re-interpolate the overs down to 0dBFS.  Remember you are interpolating a few hundred samples which at 96K sample rate is a few milliseconds total over the entire song.  Nobody is going to hear that and you have gained typically 1-3dB RMS loudness in exchange. 

Good deal IMO. :)




 
Logged

Armaegis

  • Uphill, both ways
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +76/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 883
  • metallurgist, rocket scientist, swing dancer
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2015, 05:29:50 PM »

On the subject of cleaning, has anyone ever tried those zerostat gun thingies? I'm actually kinda interested in that for the labs if it works.
Logged
Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

OJneg

  • Audio Ayatollah / Wow and Fluster
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +120/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1245
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2015, 06:09:22 PM »

One of my DJ buddies asked me how I normalize my needledrops so I thought I would put my answer here as well since it seems relevant to the discussion. :)

(BTW if a pro mastering engineer type (does Bob Katz read changstar?) happens to pass through and has comments or better ideas I would love to hear them)

Anyhow, conventional wisdom would simply have you normalize to 0 (or -0.03) dbFS and be done with it however you will find that with needledrops you are invariably going to end up with some big ass transients few of which will be much larger then anything in the recording.  If you are playing your drops back to back in a playlist (or set) vs modern masters they are often several dB quieter because of this.  In extreme cases they can be as much as 6dB RMS lower or even more.

To offset this without smashing the dynamic range what I do is gain everything up just past the point where the biggest transients clip. The goal is to get maybe 100-200 or so overs in each channel (in iZotope RX4 use alt-D to bring up the loudness info/over calculations window) which usually ends up being somewhere between +0.75 and +3dBfs on the louder of the two channels.  If you end up in the thousands or a single clipped interval ends up being >100 samples or so you need to dial it back.  It will probably take you a few tries to dial in a number you are comfortable with.

Once you are happy and have the waveform just barely clipping you use the "Declip" function in RX4 set at -0.1dBFS threshold to re-interpolate the overs down to 0dBFS.  Remember you are interpolating a few hundred samples which at 96K sample rate is a few milliseconds total over the entire song.  Nobody is going to hear that and you have gained typically 1-3dB RMS loudness in exchange. 

Good deal IMO. :)




 

I say set Line-In level appropriate and don't normalize. This is why Jesus gave us pots to control playback. I like to do as little manipulation on the digital side as possible.
Logged

Chris F

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +20/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 159
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2015, 06:44:46 PM »

As long as you don't clip the input to the ADC it's all good. :)

BTW speaking of ADC input; I go for program peaks around -6dBFS.  At -6dBFS you are using 23/24 bits of ADC resolution and your program material has a dynamic range waaaaay under that.






Logged

OJneg

  • Audio Ayatollah / Wow and Fluster
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +120/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1245
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2015, 04:38:40 AM »

Logged

Mr.Sneis

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +21/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
  • DSD DXD Hi Rez BBQ 32 bits omg give me moar
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2015, 08:46:44 PM »

The ADC cannot be a consumer grade soundcard like a Soundblaster or Asus Xonar. They simply aren't good enough. You need something designed for professionals - RME, Motu, Lynx, etc, not for playing video games.

Finally, no freeware recording software like Audacity. For whatever reason, every drop I've heard done using Audacity has sounded lousy. iZotope is a good option, and don't cheat by using any automatic click repair. Listen to your rip in real time, and take out the clicks and pops as you find them.


I have an old Firewire 410 interface and do not want to spend money on fancy software to try making a rip.  I do have access to Mac or PC though; are there other decent freeware alternatives?  If nothing free is available do you have some commercial recommendations?
Logged

OJneg

  • Audio Ayatollah / Wow and Fluster
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +120/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1245
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2015, 09:58:34 PM »

I use Reaper to great success. Going to be a bit harder to get set up and learn as it's a full-blown DAW though. Much better than Audacity IME. I find Ardour to work well on Linux as well.
Logged

DaveBSC

  • Best Korean Sympathizer
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +222/-50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2092
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2015, 12:22:14 AM »


I have an old Firewire 410 interface and do not want to spend money on fancy software to try making a rip.  I do have access to Mac or PC though; are there other decent freeware alternatives?  If nothing free is available do you have some commercial recommendations?

Sound Forge Audio Studio is a good option on Windows. Costs about $20 on Amazon.
Logged

Chris F

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +20/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 159
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2015, 12:28:44 AM »

Does Audacity still have the issue where it can't properly record 24 bit in Windows unless you personally compile it with ASIO/WASAPI support?
Logged

OJneg

  • Audio Ayatollah / Wow and Fluster
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +120/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1245
Re: How-To Make Good Needledrops
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2015, 12:44:21 AM »

I think so. Might be part of the reason it sounds off
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4