Topic: Do young people still appreciate critical and analytical thinking and research? (Read 2286 times)

Deep Funk · « **Reply #20 on:** April 09, 2015, 04:39:43 AM »

Quote from: blue on April 09, 2015, 02:05:48 AM

26 is not old. A small batch of students doesn't mean anything, don't jump to conclusions. It could be a school thing, or a regional thing, or maybe you are just unlucky- think statistics.

The US educational system has flaws but it's actually one of the better ones in the world.

I never stated I was old. Relative to the others I am old. That small batch is dozens of people I have met and worked with through the years through project work. Before my current school I went to a different business school which I left due to terrible mismanagement.

I should clarify that I am Dutch. Besides that Western higher education is pretty good in general. In my bachelor program there have been no serious research and academic writing courses planned for the first two years. My program management can expect a visit from me.

If my school considers research and academic writing less important than jargon courses I have to at least address how wrong they are. If I do not speak up, who does?

Ringingears · « **Reply #21 on:** April 09, 2015, 05:55:27 AM »

1986. Two days of standardized testing on a traditional schedule of two semesters. 2015. 13 days of standardized testing not including AP exams on a block schedule with over 1100 minutes less instructional minutes and half the students taking the tests before they have completed the entire course. Critical thinking, research?? There is little time to teach those skills, it has nothing to do with student's valuing these things. They have little exposure to the experience as they have no time. Just cram in information and quickly forget what they have learned. Amazingly students survive this and manage to succeed in post-secondary education. I applaud them.

Thad E Ginathom · « **Reply #22 on:** April 09, 2015, 10:12:56 AM »

Quote from: Claritas on April 08, 2015, 11:55:13 PM

Schopenhauer wrote, "The man attains the maturity of his reasoning and spiritual faculties hardly before his twenty-eighth year."

I read that when I was 19 or 20. It came off as smug and I thought, "Yeah, right." But shortly after my 27th birthday, I started noticing a qualitative change in my capacity to understand the world. So I have to agree. (I was curious how old he was when he wrote that: 63.)

I've told this to younger people I've met who have the fundamentals right but are struggling to make sense of things, and it seems to make them more at ease.

My other-than-classical musical tastes got stuck somewhere around the early 70s. I listen now, 40 years later, to then-twenty-somethings singing about life's problems and expounding their wisdom. Of course, some of them got it right, with others it comes across as naive. Even my still-adored Grateful Dead: how old were they when they decided that, already, what a long strange trip it had been!

On the other hand, I'm not sure that these things follow a linear progression of years. I was quite wise at 5 --- and its been downhill from then!

Ringingears · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2015, 01:15:24 PM »

The farther one travels, the less one really knows. From a George Harrison song IIRC.

AustinValentine · « **Reply #24 on:** April 09, 2015, 01:56:46 PM »

Quote from: Deep Funk on April 09, 2015, 04:39:43 AM

In my bachelor program there have been no serious research and academic writing courses planned for the first two years. My program management can expect a visit from me.

If my school considers research and academic writing less important than jargon courses I have to at least address how wrong they are. If I do not speak up, who does?

This both surprises me quite a bit and doesn't surprise me in the least. A two part sequence of college writing (process writing, grammar and syntax remediation, training in long-form essay production) & academic writing (research methods, document review, formal documentation/citation) is a standard requirement at any Carnegie-classified Baccalaureate College or higher. Unless a student places out, most colleges require these courses for their first and second semesters. I've taught at some colleges that allowed students to take the second in the sequence at any time in their degree program, and that has always struck me as a bad idea. You should bring it up, for certain.

I could go on a long screed about the current state of the U.S. educational system but I'm just too tired this morning for that. Plus, after a decade of teaching in higher ed, I'm done after this semester. When I walk out of the classroom on May 15th, that whole mess becomes someone else's problem. They are welcome to it.

tomscy2000 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2015, 03:53:55 PM »

Why is everyone so morose about the "state of education" ?

I'm with Skyline here. Be optimistic, and actually be the ones that help enact change.

Don't carp on the sidelines. It doesn't do any good. In fact, it doesn't do anything.

Deep Funk · « **Reply #26 on:** April 09, 2015, 04:16:26 PM »

Quote from: tomscy2000 on April 09, 2015, 03:53:55 PM

Why is everyone so morose about the "state of education" ?

I'm with Skyline here. Be optimistic, and actually be the ones that help enact change.

Don't carp on the sidelines. It doesn't do any good. In fact, it doesn't do anything.

I am not particularly morose. I should have stated my sentiments in a clearer way. I only have one big bone to pick and that bone is addressed in the first post of the thread.

I also should state I am working on a plan to address my issue with my bachelor program. I am a close supporter of the Maagdenhuis occupation and as a student I cannot afford to sit on the sidelines any more. To conform to the sheep of society is not an option.

I partly agree with Skyline because my inner cynic can silence my inner optimist. I have enough experience to make a concept plan work. I agree, there is hope.

AustinValentine · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2015, 04:57:17 PM »

Quote from: tomscy2000 on April 09, 2015, 03:53:55 PM

Why is everyone so morose about the "state of education" ?

I'm optimistic about people. Students rock - and I have some of the best students I've ever taught in my capstone courses this year. I'm not particularly optimistic about the state of education-as-field. U.S. higher education has become a huge coprophagic oroborus that lives off of the digested product of student loan dollars and contingent faculty labor.

As far as "carping on the sidelines" is concerned, I'm changing fields to do a PhD in LIS with a focus on public library management and advocacy. The U.S. library system, which is also under siege but in a different way than higher ed, is a much better institutional site to do locally-based, openly available literacy and learning initiatives. Modern libraries have adapted to the U.S. economic and political shift far more effectively than other academic institutions. They also happen to be a great place to begin programs that help visitors (kids, teens, and adults) appreciate and actively seek out complexity, something that's painfully needed in the age of search engines.

Ringingears · « **Reply #28 on:** April 10, 2015, 02:41:15 PM »

Let me add to this. I think I have some of the hardest working, intelligent and intellectually curious students around. I am very proud of the dedication they show. I just am amazed how they do it given the crazy schedules, and inordinate amount of standardized testing that continually interrupts their education during the school year. I am pretty sure generations past would have not opted to take 4 AP classes in one 8 week term. These young people are under tremendous pressure for top grades. They feel if they don't get into a top tier school, they will have little chance of success in life. They are chronically sleep deprived, but still succeed. I am very optimistic about the future. Once they are running things.

Deep Funk · « **Reply #29 on:** April 10, 2015, 04:12:54 PM »

Author Topic: Do young people still appreciate critical and analytical thinking and research? (Read 2286 times)

Deep Funk

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Ringingears

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Thad E Ginathom

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Ringingears

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AustinValentine

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tomscy2000

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Deep Funk

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AustinValentine

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Ringingears

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Deep Funk

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Author Topic: Do young people still appreciate critical and analytical thinking and research? (Read 2286 times)