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Author Topic: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)  (Read 13952 times)

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Marvey

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Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« on: September 11, 2013, 05:48:25 AM »

Audio-GD Master 7 vs. PS Audio PWD2* Showdown

*PWD1 upgraded to PWD2 running firmware 2.03
Empirical Audio Off Ramp 5 (OR5) was used for the USB to i2s conversion <- this is crucial.

This was probably one of the most difficult comparisons I've ever done. I scored these DACs on the same attributes as the last DAC Comparison (see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao9CyUbvb2nFdHZ4RlZaQ2JwX1JsZG9vQlAtTmhvM2c#gid=0)

Things were so close that the two DACs would trade places depending upon the recording. Ultimately, the final scores reflect the sum of the experiences. The greatest difficulty with this comparison was trying to see through the DACs' overall presentations. The M7 is based on an R2R ladder chip, and the PWD2 is based on a modern Sigma-Delta chip. The PWD2 can be considered a very modern sounding DAC, having great technicalities in terms of resolution, articulation, clarity, etc. Ladder DACs are supposed to have that "analog" or perhaps more accurately a "vinyl" like sound. I've never liked the ladder DACs of yesteryear that much because they lacked the modern DAC technicalities. However, the M7 is surprisingly very "modern" while retaining the ladder DAC sensibilities. I guess what I'm saying is that it took a decent amount of effort to assess and see past the overall presentations of both DACs.

For those who are photographers, the PWD2 produces out of camera images which are slightly sharpened with more contrast. The images from the M7 are more unadulterated, i.e. the setting was set to no sharpening, low contrast, etc. Ultimately, resolution has nothing to do with sharpening settings, but these settings do make it difficult to assess true resolution. Considering this, one may still prefer final images with higher contrast or sharpening applied. This is why it was so difficult for me to score the various attributes and say one was better than the other.

Here are few things I would like make clear:
  • Outside of the tonality and treble rendering, these DACs were very similar in performance. We are talking about last 0.5 to 1.0% here.
  • The scoring to the PWD2 has been redone from the prior DAC comparison. Many of the PWD2 scores have been lowered because at that time, I had not yet heard anything better. The scoring here is self-contained and should not be compared to the older DAC comparison.
  • Please note the use of the OR5 and i2s with both DACs. This was critical to the AGD M7's performance. The M7 performed poorly with its stock USB.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao9CyUbvb2nFdGFfMHhqeDdmS1ZNN1dfSlE1NVZzN1E#gid=0
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 06:10:16 AM by purrin »
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Marvey

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2013, 05:51:45 AM »

Other thoughts:

In regards to "PRAT", often translated as "toe tapping", "drive", or "rhythm", I have a unique take on it. A bad DAC will not sound involving. It will lack "toe tapping" capabilities. A good DAC will get one to "toe tap". A great DAC breaks the "PRAT" mold. What great DACs will do is present sound like waves in the ocean, with the speed, height, and frequency of the waves according to the music. Sometimes things will sound slow, sometimes fast, sometimes in the middle. One rides with the waves or music. This is what I found the Audio-GD more capable of doing than the PWD2. And the PWD2 more capable than lesser DACs, etc. I find that "PRATty" DACs always tend to sound, well PRATty. This is why I think British gear like Linn and Naim, infamous for pushing the "PRAT" lingo, merely good, but not great.

Why a PWD2 comparison? Because the PWD2, as currently configured with the transport / USB converter, firmware, boards, etc. is my current reference and has so far offered the best overall sonics compared to many other DACs I've heard: Benchmark DAC, Mytek DSD, Ressossossnanance Invicta, NAD M51, Eximus DP-1, ODAC, Teac UD-501, Rega Planet, W4S DAC2, Wadia 861, Matrix X-Sabre, Linn Karik/Numerik, CD12, Lavry DA11, etc. In fact, nothing has come close until now.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 06:13:39 AM by purrin »
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munch

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2013, 06:28:11 AM »

very nice, really makes me want to hear either of these DACs now. possibly compare to some modded old R2R DACs like Parasound 1600.
any idea how these compare?
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s1

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2013, 07:46:13 AM »

Audio-GD Master 7 vs. PS Audio PWD2* Showdown
For those who are photographers, the PWD2 produces out of camera images which are slightly sharpened with more contrast. The images from the M7 are more unadulterated, i.e. the setting was set to no sharpening, low contrast, etc. Ultimately, resolution has nothing to do with sharpening settings, but these settings do make it difficult to assess true resolution. Considering this, one may still prefer final images with higher contrast or sharpening applied. This is why it was so difficult for me to score the various attributes and say one was better than the other.

Since I don't know much about photography....In terms of PQ its more like LCD vs Plasma to me.
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Hroðulf

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2013, 01:12:05 PM »

First up - I'm glad that M7 rated so high as I personally had high doubts about it.

Secondly - correct me if I'm wrong, but is the PCM1704 a true ladder DAC? I recently participated in a discussion with local electronics enthusiasts and there was an opinion that high ENOB can't be physically possible even with laser trimmed r2r ladders. We couldn't find sufficient info on DAC architecture, bet the prevailing opinion was that most likely most if not all modern DACs use hybrid designs. Namely - some bits are handled by r2r ladders and less important bits are converted by delta-sigma modulators.

I'd be very glad if someone more knowledgeable than me would chime in on this.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 03:27:32 PM »

Maybe you can convince ader to send you his Vega. THAT would be an interesting comparo, especially as its USB input is still an unknown quantity. There's no way to do I2S in, though. Steve was talking about a much lower cost version of the Overdrive awhile back, I'm not sure whatever happened with that.
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Tari

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 03:56:39 PM »

Last I saw on audiocircle, Overdrive SE2 is on the horizon slated for next year, will be one box, lower cost, no volume control or balanced outs, will do DSD. 
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Maxvla

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 05:01:01 PM »

So are you buying a M7 now, Marv?
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Marvey

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 05:18:25 PM »

Already ordered it.
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Hroðulf

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Re: Audio-GD Master 7 vs PWD2 Showdown (OR5 i2s)
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 06:34:37 PM »

So you're saying - hide yo kids, hide yo wife, thro awee yo deltasig?

And that I need to rethink about making my "last" DAC on PCM1794 and rather switch to PCM63...
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