CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 11:19:20 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8

Author Topic: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet  (Read 15602 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

victor25

  • Have you seen my Adderall?
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +6/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 165
  • Partytime!
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2013, 02:02:26 PM »

So much experience  ::)
Logged

DaveBSC

  • Best Korean Sympathizer
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +222/-50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2092
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2013, 07:02:52 PM »

Just a heads up, you have Teac spelled "Teah." Also it's "The World's Best DSD DAC Under $1,000" and has the "Celebrated BurrBrown PCM1795" and "3-dimensional" MUSES8920 op-amps. So obviously you are totes wrong.

Considering how blah entry level Esoterics are, I am completely unsurprised that a Teac DAC would be crap.
Logged

Anaxilus.

  • Dikus Beligerantis Analmorticus
  • Pirate
  • **
  • Brownie Points: +65535/-65535
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 577
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2013, 07:24:47 PM »

The latest Tascam w/ Teac trickle down was bad too.
Logged
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu

Original_Ken

  • Thread Autocrat
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +19/-1647
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
  • uberFrost is the best deal in audio today
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 08:12:33 AM »

The reviews have a very interesting list of qualities being evaluated, but you are missing Timbre.   When you have " II. Tonal Balance " that is the "Macro" and Timbre is the "Micro" (just as you have Macro-Dynamics and Micro-Dynamics).

So, the Balance of Harmonics needs to be a separately evaluated category.
Logged

Marvey

  • The Man For His Time And Place
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +555/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6698
  • Captain Plankton and MOT: Eddie Current
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 08:23:04 AM »

It's sort of combined in Bass, Treble, and Tonal balance and at some point, I needed to stop because too many things were getting interrelated. Most sigma-delta DACs tend to have similar timbre. SABRE DACs certainly have one. And then there are the ladder / NOS implementations which have the most correct timbre with NOS having the most tone density. There are exceptions of course.

The timbre thing is an extremely high priority of mine and why I rated Gungnir higher than others such as X-Sabre and Invicta despite better detail extraction, etc.


P.S.

I guess I didn't bother because we are mostly fucked with the proliferation of SABRE DACs, and the chip makers are charging an arm and a leg per ladder DAC chip. What PCM1704 is $75 a piece now?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 08:32:34 AM by purrin »
Logged

Hands

  • Pizza the Hutt
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +331/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
  • Master of Revelatory Bird Calls and Fine Art
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2013, 09:07:59 AM »

Are there any measurements that can show or maybe even hint at the difference among DACs' timbre?
Logged
The other master and I invite you to visit our digital museum of fine art and revelatory bird calls: https://www.facebook.com/SchrodsonkMuseum

Marvey

  • The Man For His Time And Place
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +555/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6698
  • Captain Plankton and MOT: Eddie Current
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2013, 09:23:18 AM »

Absolutely not. Hmmm. Maybe. Would be interesting to see up to 100-200kHz pre-filtered.
Logged

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2013, 09:28:14 AM »

creating an accurate ladder chip (without trickery) is nigh-on impossible to do right because of the tolerances involved.
For 16 bits it is already physically almost impossible (hence the ENOB being smaller than 16 bit).
a 24 bit pure ladder chip is not possible with 1 R2R ladder, some trickery is involved.

The fact that a chip accepts 20, 24 or even 32 bit data and is called a 24 bit or 32 bit DAC chip doesn't mean it actually reaches that physical resolution.
In fact 32 bit is impossible to resolve in an analog way as the S/N ratio is already factors higher.
I would be really surprised if an ENOB of 24 bits will ever be created.

I would expect the production process for ladder chips that are really high spec'd to be very costly and probably during a selection process based on minimal requirements they may have to ditch a lot of chips addong to the costs.
Accuracy of these chips is shown by the suffix b.t.w. I expect the -K suffix one will be the most expensive but at RS all the different suffix chips have the same price. Why bother buying /offering anything less than the -K suffix chips ?

1 bit chips are much easier/cheaper to create and can have a good ENOB.

As long as there is a demand manufacturers will supply... they only care about sales or prestige.
Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

Hands

  • Pizza the Hutt
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +331/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
  • Master of Revelatory Bird Calls and Fine Art
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2013, 09:52:57 AM »

Absolutely not. Hmmm. Maybe. Would be interesting to see up to 100-200kHz pre-filtered.

 :)p13

I can't say I'm up to speed on all the science and tech behind it all, but is there hardware and software out there that can do that? Or, maybe it's better to ask if it's affordable...
Logged
The other master and I invite you to visit our digital museum of fine art and revelatory bird calls: https://www.facebook.com/SchrodsonkMuseum

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven
Re: DAC-Off Comparison Spreadsheet
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2013, 12:01:41 PM »

Subsequently you can ask if there are any headphones that can reproduce those frequencies and the next question would be if there are any recordings made that have useful information and lastly ... would one be able to hear that and would it have anything to do with 'timbre'.  :)p17
Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8