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Author Topic: The Turntable Thread  (Read 45113 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #200 on: February 25, 2015, 04:09:58 PM »
Quote from: audiofrk on February 25, 2015, 04:21:17 AM
can you talk a little bit about the other pre you heard under $1000?

There are loads of them out there and I certainly haven't heard them all, but at under $1K I would suggest starting with the Lehmann Black Cube SE, MS Phonomena II+, and Sutherland Ph3D. They're all different, and a lot will depend on your specific setup. The Black Cube for example is capable of 66dB of gain which will be useful for very low output MCs, but its loading options are very limited. The Phonomena doesn't have quite that level of gain, but it can do 30, 40, 50, 59, 80, 100, 121, 150, 243, 280, 380, 475, 660, 1k, 2k, 50k, or 100k Ohms, which is incredibly versatile for a $750 Phono pre. Most pres just can't match that. My Duo lists for more than 5X as much, and it certainly can't.

The Ph3D is battery powered unlike the other two, and there are pluses and minuses to that. You get total isolation from the AC line of course, but much like a passive pre, you give up some dynamics. Some folks will like it, others won't. I personally prefer Ron's AC powered designs, but they all cost more. The closest one I think is the Insight, which is $1400.

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Dr Pan K

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #201 on: February 25, 2015, 05:22:30 PM »
In my book the 103R should be loaded at 150-185 Ohms, no more-no less. Depending on the system and personal taste that is of course questionable but if the system is sonically balanced that would be my recommendation.

And there are a couple of other phono stages that cost under 1K and are highly configurable, the iPhono and the Musical Fidelity M1 come in mind. I have had experience with both these and at their respective price brackets I find them quite enjoyable.

The M1 is faster, more quite therefor very detailed and the front LCD screen is fancy to say the least. On the minus side, it may sound a bit lean (probably due to the SMPS)

The iPhono sounds very good, melodic and for a mere $400 it will actually provide all the necessary gain even for very low MCs. I used it with great success with carts down to 0.24mV without a SUT.
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Mr.Sneis

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #202 on: February 28, 2015, 04:50:27 AM »
I stepped up my vinyl game even more recently.

The "main squeeze" vinyl rig is now a Thorens TD-160mk1 with Denon DL-103 (non R), the phono section is the built in out of a Marantz PM Ki Pearl (non lite).  Still have the SL-1600 + SX1280 happily doing daily duty though.

I've got the VTF at 2 and anti skate at 0.  I've seen recommendations for 0 anti skate but I think VE database says 2.2; ears so far maybe prefer zero. 

The Marantz has a standard MC loading of 100 ohms but I am not sure if it is user adjustable.  So far sounds much better than the M95ED and SX-780 that I had going on but obviously at a million times the price it is to be expected.  With headphones it is more tolerable of a listen but maybe a little dark sounding with the Marantz' built in headphone jack and HD600.
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Dr Pan K

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #203 on: February 28, 2015, 08:26:19 AM »
The classic 103 should be loaded at 470 Ohms give or take and it should "see" some serious inertial mass on the tonearm in order to resonate at an appropriate frequency. From what I recall the PM phono stage has 2 gain options and no loading adjustments. My favorite set up would be to use the PM phono at MM setting and insert a step up in the chain.

Among others I have a somewhat similar set up with the 103R and a SUT built by me, based on the Cinemag transformers (pretty much the same used by Bob's devices), excellent sound at affordable price. If you decide to build a SUT and you face any issues I could help.
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Chris1967

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #204 on: February 28, 2015, 12:45:21 PM »
I have recently acquired a Denon 103r and i am more than pleased with it.

It is used on a Jelco 750DB and my phono is a Musical Fidelity M1 Vynl.

Loading is 200r because i don't have anything in between 100 and 200, and i agree with DrPanK about everything.

I can dare say that this is the best low (lower) cost items i have ever used.

In my system this combination is my everyday casual listening set and i love it.






You can see my system in post #117
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Dr Pan K

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #205 on: February 28, 2015, 05:41:43 PM »
The difference between 150-180 and 200 is minimal and goes unnoticed Chris. How comes you are not using the ASR basis phono with the 103R?
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Chris1967

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #206 on: February 28, 2015, 06:55:17 PM »
No specific reason, i have my parallel arm/ Audio Technica AT33ev on the ASR.

I will test it in the near future.
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BlackenedPlague

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #207 on: March 01, 2015, 02:09:35 AM »
Quote from: Chris1967 on February 28, 2015, 12:45:21 PM
I have recently acquired a Denon 103r and i am more than pleased with it.

It is used on a Jelco 750DB and my phono is a Musical Fidelity M1 Vynl.

Loading is 200r because i don't have anything in between 100 and 200, and i agree with DrPanK about everything.

I can dare say that this is the best low (lower) cost items i have ever used.

In my system this combination is my everyday casual listening set and i love it.

You can see my system in post #117

removed the photos, but holy hell.
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Specs are everything

Chris1967

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #208 on: March 01, 2015, 08:08:35 AM »
Did i do something wrong? i don't understand
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Dr Pan K

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Re: The Turntable Thread
« Reply #209 on: March 01, 2015, 08:35:09 AM »
What BlackenedPlague meant is that he removed the photos from his reply.

Speaking of which maybe I should post some photos of my analog rig too..
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