Pretty much. I would be surprised if we got something wonky.

A few DACs exhibit high end roll-off b/c of how the filter is implemented. -1db at 20kHz will not be audible tho. I only mention this because anythingbutipod.com or some similar type website pretty much shit all over Fang saying his HM-801 DAC was a piece of shit or something. Fang had come in the forum and was trying to explain how the PCM1704 DACs implemented in that manner all have early roll-off in the frequency band. (There are all sorts of factors such as a slower rolloff at the knee of the curve so as to not introduce funky phase shifts, .etc) But noooo, all the ABIP guys just had to shit all over him.

The measurements have to be taken into proper context. Also, I don't think my equipment that that kind of accuracy. Maybe 0.2db at best. People don't hear 13-14 kHz with any kind of precision.

I'm in a nasty banning and public shaming mood these days because of lack of sleep and stress from continual work from the end of last year which hasn't seemed to stop. Be warned.

That being said, an FR graph is good basic measurement.

Let me clarify. This place isn't ABI which places a priority on only measurements (and just one in this case).

Roll-off in the last octave does not cause "veiled and muffled" (in the words of the tester there.) It may result in lack of air (depending how good the person's hearing is), but it does not cause veiled and muffled. You can ask any sound engineer here. I think there is at least one.

I think you would be surprised how many people would fail A/B with such a treble rolloff:

• 5kHz -0.25db
• 10kHz -1.25 db
• 15khz -2.25db
• 20kHz -4.25 db

I pretty sure I wouldn't be able to hear it myself. And again, the analysis fails to take into account design considerations such as the effect on phase shift with a brick wall filter as opposed to a soft knee filter.

The folks at ABI were jumping into conclusions based on one measurement: "the product has failed for its price range". "Or if high end has sound means rolling off the treble, then these high end products are crap."

Now I don't disagree that the output Z of the HM-801 was pretty bad and would wreck havoc with IEMs and to a lesser extent low Z headphones. I don't think the head out of the HM-801 is good sounding at all. But as a DAC it's very good - and most people I know who own the unit use it as a DAC only.

What I'm saying is there's obviously a heavy bias to measurements "high-end is a rip off" axe to grind at ABI. That's fine, and to each their own. But this place isn't ABI.

Finally, I think most people (if they could understand the semi-abstract concepts behind the math) would be surprised at how most measurements are the result of very complex mathematical formulas which transform the signal in the time domain (how we hear) into frequency (or phase) domain. These mathematical transforms are done for the sake of presenting information to us in a form which is easier to understand. However, there are limitations, constraints, and removal of information to these conversions.

Measurements are limited. One measurement taken by itself in isolation from other related measurements is extremely limited. A set of related measurements is better, but still limited. I mean, why is it that reducing feedback on amplifiers (so long as the output is still reasonably linear) makes them sound less flat and more involving? Why does increasing feedback so amps measure perfectly flat with crazy insane low levels of distortion make them sounding flat and boring?

One could record the waveform and compare waveforms, but comparing waveforms to each other is not really a viable method. There post a while back where I recorded the output waveform from a BA and CMOY to an HD800, and compared them with the original. I can't seem to find it? Can someone locate it for me?

EDIT: for the record, I'm not a big fan of the HM-801 (or the PCM1704 implementations), but I do appreciate what it does, and I'd easily take it over a lot of other stuff (and only as a DAC)

Yeah, I'd agree they probably went too far. Even at my most rabid I wouldn't normally take one measurement to attack a product.

On that note, I'm not even going to touch the subject of feedback

I've heard some rumblings about people hesitant about the Magni because of the issues that the Lyr before it had a relay. Is there any indication that it's dropping DC bombs on on/off like the previous Schiit amps?

No. We clearly state it has a muting relay.

To clear everything up, once again, a copy-paste from sponsor-fi:

1. We know of exactly one case of a defective Lyr killing a headphone, post-relay. The person posts on this board--and he will tell you that we told him "it is defective, send it back and we'll fix it." He actually wanted to keep the amp, he was so happy with it, and kept it to the point where it blew up a headphone. If you have friends who have blown up headphones with Lyr, post-relay, they're not talking to us. And they should. In that case, the amp is defective, and we will fix it.

2. Any defect in our products is magnified on the forums, due to our large volume production. We have literally thousands of Lyrs and Asgards out in the world. If they had lots of issues, we simply wouldn't be a viable business. Our stuff is extremely reliable. Remember, Mike and I have been doing this for several decades. If you check the resale prices on 20-year-old Sumo and Theta gear, you'll get a pretty good idea that we build solid products.

To repeat some stuff from other threads regarding the relays, etc:
 
1. Why did the Asgard and Lyr not have relay protection when we first launched? When we started the company two years ago, we assumed we were building the highest-possible sonic performance products for an audience looking for the same, and who knew that this could involve taking some precautions. It's very common in megabuck gear to have a "turn on sequence," for example, where if you turn on the preamp after the power amp, you might be looking at voice coils. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying this is how it is. Now, we understand clearly that we have to provide reasonable protection.
 
2. As far as we know, all early Asgard owners have been notified, and all who wanted the relay mute have it. A lot of people don't want relays. Of course, others still trickle in from secondhand and thirdhand owners. Relays have been in place since August 2011. If you want to know if an Asgard has a relay, ask the owner if there's a noticeable click 15-20 seconds after it powers up.
 
3. Only about 10% of total Lyr production went out without a relay. However, although early Lyr owners were notified, the take rate on the relay addition is very low. Most don't want it. Again, if you want to know if it has the relay, ask the owner about the click.
 
4. If you were not notified, or if you buy an early production Lyr or Asgard that has not had the relay added, the offer stands to retrofit any of them, from any owner (original or second/third/fourth/etc hand) for free. You only pay for shipping.

Lol Jason!  Still getting shit about the 'Shike' relay.  You guys should run a site banner that states, "ALL SCHIIT COMES WITH A 'Shike' RELAY FFS!".  Maybe a forehead tatoo and a slut tag.