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Author Topic: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)  (Read 44985 times)

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fishski13

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2013, 04:17:45 AM »

The O2 would look more stylish with a cap sticking up through the chassis. I can give it a try.

i would recommend a bunch of motor-run caps in parallel for placebo effect.  it will still fit in your backpack and be "portable".
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Marvey

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2013, 04:30:53 AM »

I have one of those!
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Willakan

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2013, 02:46:46 PM »

Interesting. My only concern would be that 0.2db is very close to the threshold where I would expect skilled listeners to be able to ABX differences (members of this site included), and that the output level of the PWD2 is unknown: if it's considerably above ~2.5VRMS it could be causing the O2's input stage to clip, albeit not necessarily in an obvious fashion.

The sound signature differences reported correspond closely to what I heard when I listened to recordings of an O2 clipping compared with the original recording (volume-matched, blind, blah blah blah). Slight clipping producing slight harshness?

There is of course the possibility that the Schiit amp doesn't measure up, but that seems reasonably unlikely, especially with the easy load of the HD800s, so heading off at that angle would be kinda disingenuous.

If every concern is satisfied, I have some horribly speculative theories as to why the O2 sounds harsh - nothing special, mainly referring to the presence of very high order harmonics as the O2 approaches clipping with high voltage sources, whilst overall distortion remains low. The max output voltage of the PWD1 (which according to one post on their forums is the same as the V2) is 2.8VRMS, which is right on the absolute edge of the input stage's voltage swing when on Low gain with a standard build (gain=2.5X).

Admittedly, you're highly unlikely to be listening to stuff which approaches 0dbfs...on the other hand, all it takes is a little bit of variance from spec on either side and you've got clipping.

NB: On the off chance that anyone cares, here's a site for testing volume thresholds. http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=0.2

EDIT: Was editing my post as person below posted. I found the same information, but nothing referring to the PWD2...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 03:13:51 PM by Willakan »
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2000impreza

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2013, 03:08:33 PM »

I believe the output voltage for the PWD2 is 2.8v RCA(unbalanced) and 5.6V XLR(balanced). Never got a chance to measure the voltages to confirm.
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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2013, 03:12:49 PM »

Impressive results Mike.  But I already knew about your golden labias.

 p:0
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tdockweiler

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2013, 04:08:55 PM »

Anax had never heard the Magni before he took the test. He is also only moderately familiar with the PWD2. It will be interesting to note what his non-blind impressions are of the Magni. Anax was allowed to press the buttons, but had no knowledge of the wiring scheme. Anax was told that minor changes (or no changes) were made to the wiring scheme after each track.

My non-blind "living with both amps" impressions of the Magni in comparison to O2:
  • Magni can sound slightly bright: steely or splashy in the treble at times depending upon the headphone (HD800 and HE5 exhibited this behavior more than others). This may be a concern for brighter headphones, but was a plus for neutral or darker headphones.
  • Magni does not necessarily sound lean. There is a little warmth.
  • Magni sounds much more expansive. Huge stage, very wide and moderately deep. Very impressive for solid-state and its strongest quality.
  • Magni is slightly cleaner, has notably better instrument definition and precision, particularly in the treble. This is the Magni's second best quality.
  • Magni is a tiny bit better at retrieving micro-details and is slightly less flat. OBJ2 is more closed-in and a little flatter in terms of micro-dynamics. Magni reproduces more gradations in volume levels than the OBJ2. This is most evident in decays and attacks.
  • OBJ2 has deeper bass with more punch.
  • OBJ2 is tonally more balanced, but the treble attacks are  more strident or sharper.
Some points:
  • With the exception of openness, the differences were notable but not huge. The difference between these two amps are much smaller than say the difference of either amp compared to the Melos or Mjolnir.
  • Magni is a good match with HE500, HE400, LCD2. It was also pretty good with a modded HD800 and the ATH-W3000ANV. It was also good with the HE5 (but with special gel pads). No HE6 on hand, but I don't think this would be a good idea. I loved the HP1000 from the Magni.

I got the Magni in last week and agree with most of your comments. I'd say for $99 I was impressed. So far it wouldn't be my first pick for the Q701, DT-880 or similar sounding headphones. It actually makes my DJ100 less forgiving of harsh tracks and more trebly, which is kind of nice, but rather annoying. Using it with the ODAC though. Right now I don't like it with my Q701 at all. Some claim amp burn-in nonsense, but maybe it will smooth out after a few weeks. I won't go there..

My favorite headphones for it are the HD-650 and K240 Sextett LP. Drives the 600ohm Sextett just fine (25% volume and sounds good), but I don't like that headphone enough to buy an amp for it. This pair suffers from not having enough treble or low bass.

The Magni is the leanest sounding amp i've heard so far. I can't detect any warmth, but I guess it's there. It reminds me of my Ipod Touch 2G, but with a tad more treble. I know you can't really compare the two, but when I was using the Magni+ODAC with my DJ100, it sounds nearly identical to how it is with the Ipod Touch 2G. Obviously with some improvements.

I do wonder if the Magni has some low bass roll off. It does seem like my Clip+ has better extension, but it's probably just my imagination.

It's amusing how before the Magni came out someone claimed it would have a small soundstage. I think the thing that impresses me the most is it's soundstage size with the HD-650 and how clear it is with every headphone.

Probably best with warmer headphones..loving it with the HD-650 though. I always dis liked that headphone in the past, but the pair I bought a few months ago is really good. Sounds mostly like a more laid-back DJ100 though, which is a bit weird to say.

Still need to try the O2 and see if it's better for the Q701, but probably not. I use the Headroom Micro for the Q701 and love it. I don't find it warm at all, but maybe compared to the O2/Magni. I haven't found it to be bad for any headphone I've ever had, which is what I want. I imagine it's not as clear sounding as the Magni or O2.

Can't wait to see what the Magni does when I connect up a bunch of different crappy sources to it. That's always an interesting test.

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Solderdude

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2013, 04:27:21 PM »

It would be strange IF the Magni would have any bass roll-off at all since acc. to Schiit the design has no input and output coupling caps in which case it would be flat from DC.
Of course if they built in a DC servo circuit there still could be some roll-off.

The O2 has coupling caps so should theoretically have more low roll-off.

My suggestion to replace the C8 and C9 with 2200 (that indeed won't fit when placed as the 220uF are will (or should) not do anything with the HD800 but MIGHT with low impedance headphones when powered of 9V batteries.

As stated never heard these amps so cannot comment on the sound.
Output resistance and HOW the amplifier reacts to complex loads (seeing both are low output R amplifiers) might cause slight audible differences.

The K701/Q701/DT880 like to be driven from higher Ohmic amplifiers (100 - 120Ohm output R) and will sound fuller and less edgy. a simple matter of voltage division, no magic there. some call it 'synergy'.

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Marvey

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2013, 05:11:48 PM »

I believe the output voltage for the PWD2 is 2.8v RCA(unbalanced) and 5.6V XLR(balanced). Never got a chance to measure the voltages to confirm.

Digital output from iRiver was normalized (replay gain) from track to track. The adjustments were on average about -10db to -15db for pop tracks with a peak level of 0dbFS. The Cello Suite hit 55% at peak.  In addition, the PWD2 output was set to 95 of 100. In other words, we took into consideration the OBJ2's peculiarities.

+/- 0.1 was about as good we could get with the quality of the pots and size of volume knobs. There's always slight drift anyways after it's set. I agree 0.2db is audible. It's one reason I hate steppers.

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Marvey

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2013, 05:26:40 PM »

I got the Magni in last week and agree with most of your comments. I'd say for $99 I was impressed. So far it wouldn't be my first pick for the Q701, DT-880 or similar sounding headphones. It actually makes my DJ100 less forgiving of harsh tracks and more trebly, which is kind of nice, but rather annoying. Using it with the ODAC though. Right now I don't like it with my Q701 at all. Some claim amp burn-in nonsense, but maybe it will smooth out after a few weeks. I won't go there...

We had avoided anything Magni on HF to avoid being influenced. I've finally hit the HF site, I was surprised at how similar the impressions were of the sound of this amp.

I agree with you on the HD650. My HP1000 (which has a bass hump and has a fair amount of bass distortion) sounds good from the Magni. The HE500, which can sound darkish or laid back on certain amps sounds neutral, almost monitor like neutral. The Magni obviously synergizes very well with the LCD2 and HE400 too. Makes sense. If you can afford an HE800 or HE6, you are not going to get the Magni.

Yes, I do love this amp a lot, given that the right headphones are used. I'm still impressed by its spaciousness. I may likely purchase one for my HP1000 after I recable it. And then I'm going to re-case it and make it look like a mini-Leben.
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Marvey

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Re: Schiit Magni vs. Objective 2 (BLIND TEST EXTRAVANGANZA)
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2013, 05:42:17 PM »

It would be strange IF the Magni would have any bass roll-off at all since acc. to Schiit the design has no input and output coupling caps in which case it would be flat from DC.
Of course if they built in a DC servo circuit there still could be some roll-off.

The O2 has coupling caps so should theoretically have more low roll-off.

My suggestion to replace the C8 and C9 with 2200 (that indeed won't fit when placed as the 220uF are will (or should) not do anything with the HD800 but MIGHT with low impedance headphones when powered of 9V batteries.


The DC servo, if you look at it another way, is really a high pass filter at a very low frequency. In other words, it filters DC. Just looked at the schematics and realized that in fact, the O2 does have those small caps between the stages. I don't think the cap replacement you suggested is necessary. We didn't have any drive or power issues with the bass.

Although this may sound like pure voodoo to the uninitiated, caps in the circuit path to tend to warm up the sound. Also, in general, DC coupled / servo designs have always sounded cleaner, leaner, and more open than designs with caps in the circuit path. I did threaten Jason that I was going to add caps in the circuit path to warm up the amp for brighter headphones. I'm sure he cringed or perhaps smiled.

Amp design is always a funny process were you compromise one thing for another. Or throw money at it if you don't want to compromise. Anyone who's DIY'd an amp or prep'd a car for road track racing knows this.
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