CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...  (Read 232926 times)

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Tari

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2012, 05:58:22 PM »

The Invicta is stellar, but quite a bit above your price range.

Pigmode on HF has a Neko FS in Canada for $600.  It punches well above that price range.
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Anathallo

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2012, 06:09:37 PM »

The Invicta is stellar, but quite a bit above your price range.

Pigmode on HF has a Neko FS in Canada for $600.  It punches well above that price range.

Indeed, I've read really good things about the Invicta.  But what really separates it from the E20?  They both use the same chips, and the E20 seems to have a larger feature set with equally good measurements (although they obviously will make the measurements look as good as possible)...  What's the extra $1500 go to with the Invicta?   I realise the implementation, power supply, etc.. will all have an impact,

http://www.exasound.com/e20DAC/e20DACOverview.aspx

I'm not trying to push the exa, I'm just trying to learn how to read past the marketing bs.  Both websites seem pretty direct without marketing magic talk, though.

Regarding the Neko, why is he selling it for $900 less than retail?  Seems too good to be true....
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Tari

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2012, 06:21:15 PM »

Monte is an upstanding, long time member on HF.  He sold his HD800, Arete/Volcano, and now his Neko at great prices on a whim.  I wouldn't hesitate buying from him for a second.

The exasound looks really interesting.  Can't comment as I've never heard it and have no idea who runs it.  Suffice to say that "Async, 9018, galvanic isolation, DSD" are great selling points but don't tell you everything about the DAC's implementation.  The Invicta uses an original algorithm for dithering that no one else incorporates.  It is designed by Dustin Forman, who was the engineer behind the 9018 and has quite a few patents to his name.  The SDXC card (with HDMI out for control on a screen) was a big plus for me, as is the OLED display, the build quality, and the 30 day guaranty.  The headphone out on the unit is also pretty great.  Also includes a remote, which is a feature that adds more to cost than you would think, especially on small-run units.  The Invicta will have DSD capabilities within the year but I don't have any idea whether they plan on supporting 384.  If you read what Lavry has to say on the matter there's a significant downside to 192 and 384 anyways and there is not much out there recorded in DSD.

Looks like both these DACs have a 30 day risk-free trial, so there's nothing to stop you from trying out the cheaper e20 first and then returning if you don't like it and going for the Invicta.
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Tari

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2012, 06:24:09 PM »

Remember that Meitner is also in Canada, and I know dealers who sell the MA-1 for not much more than the Invicta...
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maverickronin

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2012, 06:26:15 PM »

Ideally less than $2k, but in reality I could go higher - it just becomes an issue of "is this worth it?" more than "can I afford it?"  I think the former comes into play far before the latter.

I kinda have a friendly disagreement with most of the other pirates here on this issue.  I think that, practically at least, DACs are least important part of the system since even cheap ones are so damn good in the big picture of overall SQ.  I haven't been convinced that a lot of the differences people talk about between DACs are actually real either.

Anyway, I'm not here to tell you what you should or shouldn't believe, just to present the counter point and let you make up your mind.

You're talking about spending a lot of money and I think you'd probably get a bigger improvement for it if you spent it somewhere else.  A new set of 'phones if there's a pair you've had you eye on or maybe a dedicated 'stat amp for the 404LE.  I've heard good things about the S7 so that's probably a keeper.

OTOH, if you're in love with the rest of your system then a DAC really is the only place to go.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2012, 07:02:43 PM »

Speaking of the PWD, have any of you guys been able to compare the PWD and the DL3? I've been wondering if the DL3 would be a clear upgrade over the Dacport LX, or if it would be better to just save up for a PWD.

Another DAC I've been considering is the Calyx 24/192.

The DL-3 is pretty dated at this point. Mediocre receiver, lousy USB. You're better off with a W4S or Minimax. *Most* people seem to really like the Calyx, but it needs the LPS to really get the most out of it. Calyx powered via USB is good, wall-wart better, LPS best. The Calyx CLPS I think is bundled with the DAC by dealers now.

Another option for less money (when the CLPS is factored in) is the Anedio D2. They sell out very fast, but you get the same Sabre DAC and genuinely balanced circuitry, plus a headphone amp and much easier source switching than the Calyx. The Anedio uses their converter internally wired to the DAC's input board for USB. That gets you galvanic isolation (+) but also an S/Pdif conversion that must go through the WM8805 digital receiver (-). The Calyx's USB goes straight into the DAC, along with any noise ridding on the Vbus line.

The PWD is fairly popular, and there's always a steady supply on Audiogon for around $1,000 off list. My opinion on PS is mixed though, my PPP sucked, and I thought their gaincell amps sounded like garbage. I'm wary about trying them again.

Audio-GD comes out with a new DAC every 3 days or so, and they all have asynch inputs now, no more adaptive mode.
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Tari

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2012, 07:06:44 PM »

Also, if you decide to go for the PWD MK2 I can direct you to a dealer who sells them for $2700 brand spanking new.

As for the whole placebo thing/"All DACs go to heaven", that's why I ordered the Cantata.  At least if it's all in my head I have something pretty to look at.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2012, 07:12:41 PM »

The Bryston is alright, nothing special, and the USB input is a joke. The exaSound is interesting, seems to hit a lot of the right points, but it's unclear if the USB is Class 2 or not, if it's not that means drivers on Mac and no Linux. The Sabre is also very difficult to implement properly. Get it wrong, and you get very clinical, sterile sound. There's a reason why a lot of manufacturers are opting for the WM8741 instead (or AKM or AD). The Burl uses the AKM4399, which is popular with Accuphase and Esoteric - companies that know a thing or two about DACs.

A good digital source and a good DAC can mean the difference between a system that sounds "digital" (flat, boring, very "hi-fi") and one that sounds like real music with real musicians playing. Jitter is hard to describe, but having lots of it does not get you good sound. I would not throw an EMM or dCS into a $500 headphone rig.

I would also not assume that the Matrix Mini-i is just like a Berkeley Alpha DAC because they both use two AD1955s.
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grev

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2012, 09:27:24 PM »

NAD m51, because Australia gets NADs cheap. :P
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MomijiTMO

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Re: Not a lot of DAC talk on here...
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2012, 10:58:13 PM »

NAD m51, because Australia gets NADs cheap. :P

I need to get my Octave before I go buy the M51. By then the prices will have gone up huh.  :-S
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