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Author Topic: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?  (Read 9647 times)

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Xen

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2015, 03:21:36 PM »

PC via USB > Wyrd1 > Wyrd2 > Wyrd3 >  Peachtree X1 USB/SPDIF converter > MiniDSP Nano-digi 2x8Bs > (RCA SPDIF) > GuMBy
Don't forget, he's actually running 6 Gumbies when all of his Gungnirs are updated to Gumbies: L-Bass, L-Mid, L-Treble, R-Bass, R-Mid, R-Treble
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Solderdude

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2015, 03:33:11 PM »

For 6 drivers you could do with 3 Gumbies unless you want to use just 1 channel / Gumby in that case 6 would do the job  8)
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madaboutaudio

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #112 on: September 13, 2015, 10:26:29 PM »

To disprove Bit are Bits or USB cables don't matter:

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Arnotts

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #113 on: September 14, 2015, 04:52:00 AM »

Yeah, he mentioned that in the Wyrd thread as well. I basically used my "Measurements or it didn't happen" line on him. I can't imagine Schiit would tell anyone that would do anything positive.
To be fair, Schiit don't even tell anyone that a single Wyrd will do anything positive (unless you've got noticeable problems with your USB output). They basically say you should see for yourself, which is a smart approach.
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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2015, 09:14:56 AM »

To disprove Bit are Bits or USB cables don't matter:

How? What?

Having fun with a very expensive box, "just messing around," as the guy said. It didn't set out to prove or disprove anything, didn't even ask any real questions about the signals, and, wasn't to do with audio anyway.

But it was fun to watch. Thanks
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madaboutaudio

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #115 on: September 14, 2015, 09:42:22 AM »

It shows that USB transmission is not just pulses of 1 and 0. But continuous electrical waveform that is susceptible to jitter and EMI interference issues.
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Judeus

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #116 on: September 14, 2015, 09:47:37 AM »

It shows that USB transmission is not just pulses of 1 and 0. But continuous electrical waveform that is susceptible to jitter and EMI interference issues.

usb cables still dont matter
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Solderdude

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #117 on: September 14, 2015, 10:44:55 AM »

Well yes, except in software all 1's and 0's are represented by voltages, currents, electrical charges, magnetic fields, pits or lands (actually those only signal transitions), darker or brighter areas and what not.
Some are perceptive to EMI/RFI, others are not, some are read with inferior magnetic or optical readers with motors and use (electro)mechanical components with limitations.
More often than not operating near the edge of where it still works reliably enough.

For 1's and 0's the physical representation doesn't really matter that much untill the signal is so much distorted that a 1 or 0 gets misinterpreted...

The timing part of data transfer is in the clock recovery/synchronisation which is determined by the (averaged) timing of rising or falling edges.
The clock is embedded in the data so a combination of both signals.

It's how the cicuitry behind it, that ultimately decides at a certain point in time which is dicatated by a recovered clock, what electrical levels (with a wide margin) represents a '1' and '0' are and how these are clocked through many components that  convert bits to bytes, do lots of 'math' to the 1's and 0's (bytes usually), before actually arriving at the DA conversion stage.

It takes a lot of clockpulses (in time) for the incoming USB signal has been decoded, processed and finally changes the voltage value out of the DAC chip.

Things like impedance matching, level signals, bandwidth of a cable, induced 'garbage' from outside or inside (power supply) etc do of course have an influence on the signal amplitude but unless it is so bad bits are not interpreted as the intended bits and are incorrectable then something need to be done.


The video merely showed a USB 3.0 signal on an expensive scope and that the scope could analyse the signals as well which is neat.
Should do that as well for that price !

It said NOTHING about USB2.0 nor about its jitter, nor how the jitter is of influence in the recovered clock, nor how that recovered clock is used further on.
It also said nothing about about bandwidth differences of USB2.0 cables (which differs substantially from 3.0 cables)

Nope... indeed just a guy faffing around with an expensive toy.

Here's some plots of the influence of common mode filters and ferrite beads on a USB 2.0 signal which is of more relevance in case of the jitterbug.


(image shamelessly copied from: http://www.tdk.co.jp/indiv/nec/usb20/p5/usb20p5.htm )

Would like to see some plots like this taken on a USB signal level before and after miracle boxes and also similar shots of (recovered) clocks going into the actual DAC chips.
That is the only point chips where the (recovered) clock signal integrity matters.
Also before and after a miracle box has been applied.

The problem I see here is that to measure this with a revealing accuracy you need very expensive equipment.
Chances are the ones owning this type equipment couldn't dare less about these signals.
The ones that do have these plots are likely not to publish it.
Not for 'proprietary' reasons though ....
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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #118 on: September 14, 2015, 05:59:43 PM »

It shows that USB transmission is not just pulses of 1 and 0. But continuous electrical waveform that is susceptible to jitter and EMI interference issues.

I suspect that, if you can locate a retired grandfather who worked in the telephone industry, they would tell you that they knew all about that when music meant vinyl and only vinyl. Digital music, as we know it, may be relatively young: digital audio has been around a lot longer. 

Solderdude, thanks for the explanation. We need two things in audio: proper testing and measurement and determining what measurements are actually audible. They must go hand in hand.
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knerian

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Re: USB cleaner, purifiers, decrapifiers?
« Reply #119 on: September 14, 2015, 06:26:14 PM »

Don't forget, he's actually running 6 Gumbies when all of his Gungnirs are updated to Gumbies: L-Bass, L-Mid, L-Treble, R-Bass, R-Mid, R-Treble

This is a joke, right?
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