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Author Topic: Chi-fi Clones  (Read 1761 times)

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madaboutaudio

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Chi-fi Clones
« on: July 29, 2015, 12:17:29 AM »

Didn't know they have clones of Violectric:
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BassDigger

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 05:00:17 AM »

"Chi-Fi"?!? I wonder if that term will stick. I like it.

I'm sure that you're aware that there are endless hifi electronics clones, in China.
Of course, most of them are clones, made using 'clone' parts. I think that the fact we're using the term clone, rather than copy (or fake), has some importance; a clone is something that is made to do a similar job of the original, which includes its quality. The Chinese word is 'shan zhai'. I don't think that this should be confused with 'fake'. It's not the same thing. It seems that most clone items do a similar job to the original, to a comparable standard.

Accurate Audio seem to have taken this to the extreme; their gear even looks like the original. Indeed, when I was looking for an amp, to begin with I got them confused with the original. But all reports show that they are as good as they look. Although, in the end, I went with the Gustard H10, Violectric clone; it doesn't look anything like the original, but perhaps is an improvement over the original design.

All of this leaves me with mixed emotions:

If the Chinese companies are producing a comparable product, for 1/2 or even 1/3 the price, should I be happy to pay the original company twice as much, to cover their higher overheads and for designing the product in the first place?
Maybe a few years ago, this would be a moot point; Chinese goods were all 'known' to be totally inferior. But that's just not the case any more. Their reputation, largely helped by the bargain prices, is really improving. And besides, too many western companies have a history of profiteering; I'm fed up with paying artificially high prices, that feed the big fat cats, just to keep the shareholders happy!

But the issue is what happens in the long term? Even with just domestic sales, Chinese companies (enabled by the lack of any copyright law enforcement (unless it's in a Chinese company's favour)) are now becoming so rich and powerful, that they're able to purchase the original western manufacturer, outright. So, then they become even completely legit; they 'have their cake and eat it'! This has already begun to happen (ref: Segway and Ninebot)!

I'll continue enjoying listening to the Gustard, my second clone amp, whilst I ponder this. But I can't help thinking that the western companies (and countries) need to get a bit smarter!

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Priidik

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 10:01:56 AM »

If the Chinese companies are producing a comparable product, for 1/2 or even 1/3 the price, should I be happy to pay the original company twice as much, to cover their higher overheads and for designing the product in the first place?
This frame of mind troubles me. Such progression could at one point put out of business some company that has invented and gone through hard, expensive designing work that resulted in great, not necessarily overpriced products. Violectric stuff is easily overpriced, making it easy to clone for cheap. But I'm pretty sure that for example many Schiit offerings could be made in China for a little less and of nearly the same quality.
Once such a fine company bankrupts who continues to develop and design new great products? The Chi-Fi guys? Hells no.
 
are now becoming so rich and powerful, that they're able to Chinese companies purchase the original western manufacturer, outright.
This is a problem too. ThinkPad (line), Sansui etc were signs of quality once.

But I can't help thinking that the western companies (and countries) need to get a bit smarter!
Invent some sort of trap for opening the case? Some Japanese radios in the 70' had these.
I mostly agree here. Nothing worthy of flagship amplifier has come from those clone companies, yet. 
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uncola

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2015, 11:23:24 AM »

I have a small clone army.  Krell KSA-5 china clone and Goldmund Mimesis 29 speaker amp clone.  Both are super nice and have been great.  The speaker amp power led flickers but otherwise both have been flawless so far.. only had them a few months though.  But I'd proudly display these in a high end audio setup, they're that well built with nice enough cases(also sound great).  Both original designs are super old so I don't feel too bad about it

http://i.imgur.com/i5HOZvs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QRRciZe.jpg
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sacredgates

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2015, 11:42:48 AM »

I don´t consider the cloning of respected brands as fair play at all. I agree with Priidik in the previous post. These days the actual part price of a device does not usually take up the biggest share in cost. Engineering, development, advertisement, reliability checks, a decent service all add up to a products price point. I have heard the most horrible stories of copying in China (up to parallel copying complete manufacturing plants!). I don´t mind buying Chinese products when a company tries to market their own developed product line; I myself enjoy a Opera Consonance CD-player...
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BassDigger

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2015, 11:59:09 AM »

I, mostly, agree with the last few posts; I particularly like the reinstating old designs that some Chinese companies are doing; I'd like to check out a Krell ksa5 clone too (I have some questions about this....for another time)!!!

One slight disagreement: I think that Schiit is an example of a western company that is doing it right!
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uncola

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2015, 12:23:06 PM »

bassdigger this is the seller I bought my ksa-5 from, it's actually on sale right now.  at the risk of looking like a shill for a random chinese diy store guy:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Headphone-amplifier-Imitation-KRELL-ksa5-line-CPI-full-DC-amp-machine-small-power-output-20W-Class/32240726975.html
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madaboutaudio

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2015, 01:00:40 PM »

Take for example Chinese companies like Auralic,  Audio-Gd, Hifiman, FiiO and iBasso. These companies now have really good following and reputation. In fact most of them have their own r&d and don't have to clone/wholesale copy other designs
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Deep Funk

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2015, 01:26:35 PM »


I'll continue enjoying listening to the Gustard, my second clone amp, whilst I ponder this. But I can't help thinking that the western companies (and countries) need to get a bit smarter!


That means that Western manufacturers have to re-invest in domestic manufacturing for consumers and pro-sumers. The Western companies and countries did this (loss of domestic manufacturing advantage) to themselves. At the same time the stock exchange and short-term vision is too often dictating agendas of politicians and entrepreneurs.

Autarky or the ability to be self-sufficient has been largely sacrificed for short-term gains. Who pays? We pay because corporations and companies dictate our choices unless we go DIY or stop spending money.     

A good example is Philips in the Netherlands which has decreased in size through the years. Add EU incompetence, add a government without vision and a once great provider of jobs, quality products and revenue says "fuck it, we are moving and selling operations."

As long as Western leaders are hypnotised by dreams of economies of scale at the cost of their own people this trend continues...
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BassDigger

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Re: Chi-fi Clones
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2015, 01:30:26 PM »

Take for example Chinese companies like Auralic,  Audio-Gd, Hifiman, FiiO and iBasso. These companies now have really good following and reputation. In fact most of them have their own r&d and don't have to clone/wholesale copy other designs

Indeed. I guess that these are examples on Chinese companies who don't (currently) make clones. So, maybe they're not the same as Accurate.
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