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Author Topic: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)  (Read 158892 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #500 on: December 19, 2012, 07:25:16 AM »

Didn't BMW send 335s with higher output than what was sold to the public for testing? I'm pretty sure that sending in ringers is quite commonplace, Lincoln were just sloppy with it. Also, I'm doubly confused by what they're doing since Ford has been doing quite well lately, making what seem like quality cars and what has so far turned out to be smart decisions. It's possible that Lincoln is in even more dire financial straits than I had guessed, and re-badged under-engineered cars is all that they can do with the resources they have at the moment.

The N54 twin turbo and the N55 twin scroll single turbo engines both have the same ratings, but there's some evidence to suggest that that N54 was underrated, while the N55's 300hp rating is much closer to the truth. Audi also seems to be underrating their engines as of late. The S6 is stupid fast for the amount of power it supposedly has.

If Ford is serious about Lincoln's survival, they need to get off their lazy asses and build a new platform already. Audi has already gone post platform with all future models being based on either MQB or MLP with maybe the exception of future Q7s. Lincoln doesn't even have a platform, they are still riding on borrowed tech from Mazda and Volvo.

Just being a luxury Ford isn't going to cut it, and having MyLincoln Touch be functionally identical to MFT is idiotic. No one else in the luxury game does that. CUE is terrible, but you can't get it in a Buick or Chevy. You can't get the Lexus mouse thing in a Toyota. Nissan and Honda are given hand me down versions of the systems that are in Infiniti and Acura products, but they don't have the as many features and capabilities. Having the two systems be identical just reinforces the old line that a Lincoln is a Ford with gray plastic instead of black plastic.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #501 on: December 19, 2012, 07:32:22 AM »

Speaking of idiotic, Infiniti has committed brand suicide. 10 years of building the G's image has just become entirely for naught. They are now back to square one, and will have to explain to potential customers that no, the G hasn't been discontinued, it's now a Q50 or a Q60. Wait, where are you going? Come back!

http://blog.caranddriver.com/infiniti-unexpectedly-changing-all-model-names-to-q-qx-for-2014-confirms-new-range-topping-sedan/

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catscratch

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #502 on: December 19, 2012, 08:04:48 AM »

N55s and N54s have been dyno'd. N54 is about 325hp, while the N55 is 306hp. The thing is, the early N54 engined cars delivered to car mags were likely tuned even higher than that. IIRC, Car and Driver, in their Lightning lap, recorded identical 335s with the n54 that were 4 seconds off each other around VIR (Virginia International Raceway).

The new BMW 4 is also likely underrated, probably around 270hp, but I don't recall any actual dyno tests.

Our early N54 335i keeps up just fine with a twin-turbo Supra. The new ones don't. Don't ask me how I know that  :&

Yeah, Infiniti's behavior is pretty moronic, or maybe just plain evil. I seem to remember that the whole reason why automakers abandoned actual names for cars in favor of obscure acronyms is that they wanted customers to use brand names, instead of model names, when talking about their cars - which strikes me as an utterly cynical and evil marketing move. Infiniti must have figured that their names had too much independent recognition, so they scrambled them up even more.

I like Infiniti. I think the G is a great car, and the M looks good too, though I never drove one. I don't want them to fuck up.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #503 on: December 19, 2012, 10:33:46 AM »

Infiniti has always used letters and never proper names, but just in the more recent Mercedes tradition (G35, M35 is comparable to C350, E350). Most people who know cars will know what an Infiniti G is. The original JDM 4-cylinder econobox that was imported here as the G20 is likely long forgotten, but the more recent G has had two generations and 10 years to build its rep as a kind of burly, bargain priced 3 series fighter.

What most people won't remember is the Q45, which was never more than a footnote in the luxury car game. The only thing that ever gets mentioned is the bizarre and utterly horrible advertising campaign from the original launch. Apparently it was decided that bringing back the Q designation is what's supposed to allow Infiniti to breakout into the world market, never mind that they are generally gas hogs compared to rivals and don't have even close to competitive diesel engines. Then there's the fact that Japanese luxury cars don't sell in Europe. Ask Lexus how they're doing there. None of that's the problem though, it's the names! Europeans will flock to Q50s and Q70s, just like how Volvo is burning up the market with their S60 and S80. Oh wait.

Abandoning model names in favor of letter and number combos is traditionally something that the weaker brands do as a cheap and easy way to try to build more brand equity. It doesn't work. The Legend is the case in point, it became the 3.5RL and nobody gave a shit about that car or Acura. Then it became just the RL, and nobody gave a shit, and now it's RLX, and chances are no one will give a shit. A brand that already has equity doesn't need to resort to cheap parlor tricks like that. SL. You know what it is. Mercedes doesn't need you to say "Mercedes SL".
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 10:40:20 AM by DaveBSC »
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #504 on: December 20, 2012, 03:51:01 AM »

The Japanese struggle in Europe has largely been due to lack of diesel offerings.  Which is one of the reasons Toyota teamed w/ BMW recently.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #505 on: December 20, 2012, 04:08:35 AM »

Man, all the renders I've been seeing of the next Corvette are truly hideous.  Like a ZR1 slammed into a Nissan GTR at 200mph.  Absolutely Fugly.  If GM thinks that look will sell better in Europe and overseas I think they will be quite disappointed.
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catscratch

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #506 on: December 20, 2012, 04:52:44 AM »

Acura is another example of a manufacturer that just makes me want to beat my head against the wall. I like my old CL Type S, it's one of the better front wheel drive cars I've driven and is still going pretty strong after 12 years. The TL from around that era is, if anything, even better. Then you had absolute gems like the Integra and the old Legend, wonderful cars that I miss still. And what have you got now? The best car they make is the MDX. It's sad really. The TL has a lot of interesting technologies but the drive is bland, and that's something I would never have associated with Acura 10 years ago. Their solution seems to be to slap a hideous mutant corporate beak on all of their cars while ignoring nearly unilateral criticism from all direction. It smells of hubris, and I worry about their long-term success.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #507 on: December 20, 2012, 06:05:07 AM »

I read an interesting article about how small Honda actually is and how their venture into aircraft has hurt their automotive division quite a bit.  Making a little robot like Ass-imo is one thing, making safe, well performing and compliant aircraft is another.  Reminds me of the Ferrari rule.  When Ferrari wins in F1, they make bad road cars.  When they make good road cars, they suck in F1.
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DaveBSC

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #508 on: December 21, 2012, 12:28:59 AM »

Acura is another example of a manufacturer that just makes me want to beat my head against the wall. I like my old CL Type S, it's one of the better front wheel drive cars I've driven and is still going pretty strong after 12 years. The TL from around that era is, if anything, even better. Then you had absolute gems like the Integra and the old Legend, wonderful cars that I miss still. And what have you got now? The best car they make is the MDX. It's sad really. The TL has a lot of interesting technologies but the drive is bland, and that's something I would never have associated with Acura 10 years ago. Their solution seems to be to slap a hideous mutant corporate beak on all of their cars while ignoring nearly unilateral criticism from all direction. It smells of hubris, and I worry about their long-term success.

I would argue that Acura's more significant problem is some of the worst interiors in the entire luxury game, or "luxury" in Acuras case. Plastic everywhere. Fake trim. 10,000 buttons. Acuras were never as nice inside as the equivalent Lexus. When Infiniti actually tried (J30) they could also beat Acura in interior design and execution. Acuras weren't that far off though, and they benefited from Honda's then mastery of ergonomics and ease of use. The 3.5RL was no LS400, but anybody could get in one and figure out every control within about 10 seconds.

Now there is a gaping chasm separating Lexus from Acura, who I think have dropped lower than Volvo into the absolute bottom of the interior barrel. Their cars are just disasters. The RLX has two screens right on top of each other, like the old "If you've got a working TV sitting on top of a broken TV, you might be a redneck" joke. You touch one to control audio functions, but not NAV, that goes to the other one, which is above the touch screen but the controls for it are below. Except it also sometimes shows audio. Then there are separate HVAC controls below the touch screen, but you do most of the HVAC on the touch screen. And even though they had two screens, Acura couldn't find anywhere to put a clock so they just stuck one from 1986 in there next to the NAV screen. WWWWWHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT???????



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Anaxilus.

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Re: Thinking about a new car, need some help.
« Reply #509 on: December 21, 2012, 05:16:51 AM »

Lol, that clock is pretty horrible.
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