I agree!  I've heard the same argument proposed at Buddhist teachings  

I also don't think it's healthy to go vegan.  I've heard doctors say that they've never met a really healthy vegan.  I feel bad for babies born to vegan mothers.  That's not going to be good.  I hate the idea of eating meat personally, but at some point I just resigned myself to the reality of this carniverous body. 

What I think is important is the capacity to suffer.

A far as we can tell bugs don't seem to suffer too much.  A cow can suffer more than a bug but it can still only suffer in certain ways.  It can feel pain if you don't slaughter it cleanly and it can feel fear if it sees another cow being slaughtered, but it can't even realize, let alone agonize over, the fact that its entire life only serves to feed someone and it will one day be killed, cut up, and shipped to a grocery store.  A feed lot full of people would be full of terror and despair.  The cows aren't just ignorant of their fate, like characters in some sci-fi movie who don't know that they'll be harvested for the benefit of others, but are simply incapable of understanding or caring.  Cows aren't always raised humanely and slaughtered quickly and painlessly so I support tighter regulations on that kind of thing but don't have an issue with raising them for food if reasonable efforts are taken to minimize their suffering.

Regarding bugs and other wild animals, there's another reason why society generally considers them outside of our moral concern.  We are outside of theirs, often because they don't even have one.  We can't have a conversation with them in order to work out our differences.  They're kind of like outlaws in the traditional sense.  They have no rights, but they also have no responsibilities.

Also, if you're going to value all life identically regardless of its capacity to suffer then why draw the line at animals?  Plants, fungi, protozoa, and bacteria are just as alive.  If you follow that to its logical conclusion you could even argue that every cell in you body deserves it's own individual rights and that scratching an itch is killing some cells to serve the needs of others.  If you don't grant rights or moral concern based on some level on consciousness then I'm not sure if there's a good reason to even consider all the cells of a multicellular organism the same "life" from a moral perspective.

What am I having for dinner?

Suffering cow.

Anyway, philosophers and ethicists usually delineate capacity for suffering with the presence of a nervous system.  If it cannot respond to trauma then it's usually fair game.  Of course 'respond' and 'trauma' can be loaded words.  Then there was a report that broccolli had a primitive nervous system.  But was it developed or undeveloped, etc, etc.  I used to avoid walking on grass and dirt trails, tried the vegan thing.  Totally unhealthy, no supplement can compensate for the nutrient density of a piece of meat.  After joining the military and molesting thousands of acres with a tank and scorching the earth, I'm less cognisant of the fundamental rights of grass.  Terrorists get much more consideration. 


Like LFF I too have often been appalled by the sheer acceptance of 'common knowledge' and lack of inquisitiveness from the elaborate to the basic precepts of understanding.  University was rather depressing to see how many people just accept basic fundamentals on faith in the establishment just to power through a course, get their degree and find a job.  Most never go to school to learn and thus end up learning very little.  We like to think of ourselves as special and unique in our history because we can land on the moon or carve a piece of marble into a David, but all I usually see are drones and workers in hive no different from any other insect.  I do have tremendous respect and admiration for ants and termites however, astonishing creatures.  I'm sure they'll replace us soon enough.  How ironic that the inherent qualities of humanness that gave us so much success have also taken us further away from those qualities as a result.

The philosophy I subscribe to is that there no answer - as in absolute truth. There is relative truth where one subscribes to a set of axioms and practices methods based on those axioms. Creationism in Christianity and The Theory of Evolution in Science can actually co-exist if one understands that each are independent systems using different methods designed to accomplish specific goals.

Well maybe not, especially for people in the West.

We should just have the Pope and Stephen Hawking duke it out and see who wins.



P.S. I found out in University that an easy way to get good grades in liberal arts classes was to barf up what the professor said - and sprinkle it with material from the odd unknown book or "research paper" written by the professor a few years ago.

P.S. I found out in University that an easy way to get good grades in liberal arts classes was to barf up what the professor said - and sprinkle it with material from the odd unknown book or "research paper" written by the professor a few years ago.

Very, very true! That's the secret to being an outstanding student in college. Kiss up to the professor in the papers.  I figured that one out mid-way through my freshman year.