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Author Topic: Yggdrasil Measurements  (Read 8533 times)

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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2015, 05:37:21 PM »

Oh that makes more sense. I was picturing little dac saunas for a second there.

I was picturing something more like diesel-engine glow plugs. And I'm a bit surprised at the pic showing the Yggy's temperature. In this climate that is a problem

(Or to put it another way, at last I have a reason, apart from the money, not to buy one!)
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anetode

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2015, 06:16:28 PM »

Yes, but I assume these are temp controlled clockgenerators only.

Usually, but sometimes not only the clocks. E.g. Lavry's Gold:

"The PCM DAC is constructed of custom made laser trimmed thin film resistor networks; yet any resistor is subject to short term drift due to temperature variations and long term drift due to component aging. The resistor networks are kept at a constant temperature by a linearly controlled heating element. (A bang-bang controller, such as a home thermostat is undesirable because it produces turn on and turn off surges-- thus audible kicks.) Keeping the resistors at constant temperature overcomes resistor dependency on environmental temperature variations."

If all else fails, why not sell this as an Yggy accessory case:
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Solderdude

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2015, 06:48:16 PM »

Those will be fine..

these won't

  :P
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Armaegis

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2015, 07:54:09 PM »

I don't think either of those would be big enough... but maybe a tabletop pizza oven?
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aive

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2015, 10:58:01 PM »

Indeed, not very severe though.
All 'normal' ladders have it in some severity.
Only with signed magnitude it isn't obvious as it isn't in the 0V line, instead it has 2 of them at the -6dBFS points.
It is only possible to 'see' it when you zoom in on that point. Nobody is going to.
It may be less audible in SM because in softer passages as there is no 0 crossing and the signals would be well below -6dB or even -12dB.

impressive jitter figures...

I'm surprised by the cross over distortion. I don't see it when measuring the outputs of my M7 (using Rigol DSO)... Will post a SS when I'm not posting from iPhone.

I'm not experienced on the matter, and the FFT measurements show all other signals other than fundamental are near noise floor. But I wouldn't of expected it in a device where fidelity is meant to be the main goal...
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atomicbob

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2015, 11:17:41 PM »

Those crossover blibs are just at -104dB and at a frequency of around 17kHz (for this test tone).
Judging from the waveform I figure it may not be possible to improve this using forward correction, perhaps using signed magnitude.

I'm surprised by the cross over distortion. I don't see it when measuring the outputs of my M7 (using Rigol DSO)... Will post a SS when I'm not posting from iPhone.

I'm not experienced on the matter, and the FFT measurements show all other signals other than fundamental are near noise floor. But I wouldn't of expected it in a device where fidelity is meant to be the main goal...
You won't see cross over distortion from your M7. Delta-Sigma recovery filters assure there won't be any such artifact. Part of their "charm". Look at Solderdude's comments again. This crossover distortion is in the last two bits of a 20 bit DAC at the zero-crossing only. It is above 17KHz in nature. It is far less audible (if at all) than jitter spectrum on many high-end DACs. I was hesitant to post this particular graph due to exactly this potential for mis-interpretation. I also have linearity graphs but am really hesitant to publish them for the same reason.

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aive

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2015, 11:25:24 PM »

Ahh that makes a bit of sense to me - and I'm glad you posted that information so we could discuss it and so I could learn something new :P As I said I think practically it makes no difference, your explanation re bit accuracy further justifies it (earlier I was trying to consolidate the 20/21 bit accuracy rating of the DAC with the time domain distortion but I think you've covered it but I'll have to do some more reading I think).

The M7 is an R2R DAC though btw...
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ultrabike

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2015, 11:33:14 PM »

Bob, what other parameters/measurements (besides jitter) you feel are important to look at that correlate well with perceived performance?

Also, any reason to use WDM over ASIO for the measurements? (I'm not familiar with Yggy driver support nor the Prism, and that's what the screen captures seem to display)

Where the measurements done at -0.1 dBFS (4.something Vrms)?

Any higher rate measurements?

Thanks! :)
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atomicbob

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2015, 11:57:50 PM »

The M7 is an R2R DAC though btw...
Ok, brain fart. I saw and wrote M7 but was thinking M51. Mental dyslexia kind of thing.
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atomicbob

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Re: Yggdrasil Measurements
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2015, 12:08:42 AM »

Bob, what other parameters/measurements (besides jitter) you feel are important to look at that correlate well with perceived performance?

Also, any reason to use WDM over ASIO for the measurements? (I'm not familiar with Yggy driver support nor the Prism, and that's what the screen captures seem to display)

Where the measurements done at -0.1 dBFS (4.something Vrms)?

Any higher rate measurements?

Thanks! :)
I'm not sure I'm the one to answer questions relating measured performance against perceptual performance. One of the reasons I obtained a dScope and several other rather expensive test bench items such as a Klippel analyzer and Keyence laser displacement meter. I am trying to figure this out for myself as part of my acoustic research.

I'm using the WDM drivers only because the dScope is finicky during USB sound card setup when using ASIO drivers and it takes a bit of fiddling to make it all play reliably. Using either AES/EBU or SPDIF is a breeze by comparison. But everyone wants to know about USB performance so that is what I am focused on initially.

There may be higher rate measurements later on. Setup, measurement and screen capture all take some time for each test. I haven't reached retirement or independent wealth, so my hours are filled performing acoustic research for a corporate entity. I'm hoping to catch any changes after 400 hrs of constant power on time this weekend. I missed the 200 hr mark as my corporate gig needed attention at that time.
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