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Author Topic: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?  (Read 6669 times)

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hplunket

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2015, 06:04:39 PM »

I've lived with a Pono for a couple of months and it's found a place in my life as a decent portable.  Paired with the right portable cans, it's a great $400 hi-res multi-format player.  Blows away Clip and Apple devices, at least. I don't care that it can't drive my 600's or 800's, or is a relatively mediocre source component for home use.  And I'm certainly not going to drop cash on balanced cables to help it along in that regard.  That's not its reason for being, in my opinion.

Luckily, I hate shoving things in my ears so I have no expensive IEM's that have dissappointed with Pono.  And I like to be aware of my surroundings when I'm out and about.  My favourite Pono portables: Pyrate-approved 60 ohm KSC75's--awesome on-the-go sound with plenty of volume.  Give that pairing a try if you haven't.  Especially on a headband.  Porta-Pro drivers on the 75 earclips are also just as satisfying to me.
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Anaxilus

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2015, 06:36:33 PM »

And I'm certainly not going to drop cash on balanced cables to help it along in that regard. That's not its reason for being, in my opinion.

I'm not sure I or Neil Young agree with that. It's designed with balanced output in mind, and don't you want to get 112.5% out of your music files?  :& ;)

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OJneg

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2015, 06:55:00 PM »

I think the dual TRS is actually a pretty cool idea if you want to get balanced audio out of it. A pair of TRS to XLR connectors would be all you would need and you could route that to a stereo system or whatever. But for driving headphones? The 4-pin A&K type connector gives you the same pinout. I suppose it appeals to the same folks who have their headphones terminated for dual 3-pin XLRs  ::)
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Anaxilus

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2015, 07:00:22 PM »

I don't think anyone is starting a debate about the virtues of different balanced output formats. It was already a mess and Pono just made it worse.
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hplunket

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2015, 08:50:50 PM »

And I'm certainly not going to drop cash on balanced cables to help it along in that regard.  That's not its reason for being, in my opinion.
I'm not sure I or Neil Young agree with that. It's designed with balanced output in mind, and don't you want to get 112.5% out of your music files?  :& ;)

I agree, Neil probably wouldn't publicly agree with that.  He's a professional showman fronting a startup looking for investors. I take his sales pitch with a grain of salt. Take aside a guy from Ayre, however, and what could he say with a straight face other than "Yah, we built a great little $400 portable.  If you want to hear something really good, check out our home components."  The balanced output capability of the Pono is cool, but we both know it just makes it a turbo-charged Civic.  If someone wants to spend a quarter or more of the Pono's price for balanced cables, all the power to them.  Just don't expect it to run like a Porsche.
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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2015, 09:22:39 PM »

What's so great about balanced output for interconnects anyway? It's purpose is to protect signals on long cable runs from the noise that they pick up, not to be a better ouput.

Now, to play devil's advocate to my own statement... What's so great about it is that it is a superior technology that may not give me better sound, but gives me pride of ownership because I prefer the idea of something that was engineered to do what it does over the accident that is RCA cables.

Quote (selected)
we both know it just makes it a turbo-charged Civic.

How does it even do that? Except... if it really is a balanced output as per the professional specs, the signal is quite a lot louder.


 


 
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Anaxilus

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2015, 10:37:34 PM »

Sorry, but I more often hear an improvement in balanced output sonics compared to a headphone than not. It actually makes sense. TRS jacks are just a convenience design and have a number of intrinsic electrical drawbacks (noise, shorting, etc.). Whether you believe they are audible is up to your experience, testing regimen and chosen belief set. Electrically speaking, it is more advantageous than TRS, no doubt about it.

Meh for analogies. I know some turbocharged civics that would and have run circles around some stock Porsches. It's all relative.

I'd also say the balanced output from the Pono is a notable improvement not that far removed from what you get upgrading from an iPhone to the Pono SE. You already paid $400 to get to that point, another $100 give or take ain't that far off if you've already gone down the rabbit hole. Ultimately it will depend on your chosen transducer and your listening priorities. I just wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the idea when taken in the grand scheme of things.
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hplunket

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2015, 01:11:55 AM »

I'd also say the balanced output from the Pono is a notable improvement not that far removed from what you get upgrading from an iPhone to the Pono SE. You already paid $400 to get to that point, another $100 give or take ain't that far off if you've already gone down the rabbit hole. Ultimately it will depend on your chosen transducer and your listening priorities. I just wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the idea when taken in the grand scheme of things.

I don't doubt that the balanced output sounds better.  I just don't see many folks--me included--bothering with balanced mode and the added expense of the cables. Given the range of options, what audio savvy person would choose a Pono as a source component for home use?  How many will see enough benefit in re-cabling their commuter headphones?  Not many, IMHO.  Pono isn't going after the Astell & Kern crowd.  At the $400 price point, they're hoping to lure the curious iDevice user into their music ecosystem, folks who will primarily use Pono as a portable device with stock phones.  And with the right pair of stock phones, I think it sounds pretty sweet for the money.
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Anaxilus

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2015, 03:08:06 AM »

I don't doubt that the balanced output sounds better.  I just don't see many folks--me included--bothering with balanced mode and the added expense of the cables.

That's totally fair. I see merits to both alternatives.
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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Pono (Ayre) player or Oh No! player?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2015, 07:57:08 AM »

Are you guys talking about balanced cables as in headphone cables or as in line-level interconnects?

Being a junior in the world of headphones, I've never experienced balanced headphone cables, and I don't have much clue about them. As I understand it, they separate the channels instead of having a shared ground? Seems like a good idea. Anyway, I have no experience and I'm not arguing.

Balanced interconnects... it also seems like a good idea, and if I have equipment that is balanced, I'll go that way. I do, and have. And will again, if I can.

So, what is this balanced thing on the Porno? Is it real balanced with three conductors for each channel?
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