CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.  (Read 1870 times)

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Anaxilus

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I also consider myself much more of a learner at this point than anything else. Some of the discussion here pushes me to read and try shit out. I truly enjoy it.

Yup!!  Same.  What's odd is that I detest deconstructionist philosophy as pretentious and self-serving yet the same approach is critical for science.  Question everything!
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ultrabike

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Questioning can be pretentious, but it's not always that way IMO. For example, not following "the way" is proly a result of honest questioning of "the rules". Good things can come out of that.
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schiit

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I've built amplifiers that followed the "blameless" template, more or less. Not because of Self, but because they're what any competent amp designer would do when designing a typical speaker amp. They're definitely going to be stable (but that's less topology and more compensation), and they'll measure well. They can sound good.

Its just...just the out-of-hand dismissal that irks me. "JFETs are unsuitable for an input differential amp," for example. Oh yeah, I'd rather use BJTs and deal with all the RF garbage that's going to be rectified by the PN junction in a modern, cellphone-infested environment. Fun fact: Ragnarok would be a complete no-go with BJT inputs, since the input ladder switching would cause HUGE transients due to the fact that they are current-input devices. JFETs, no problem.

But yeah, sounds like I'm with most of you here...still learning. My conclusions to date may be wrong. They may be revised in the future. I haven't talked about other factors, like high rails for linear operating points without feedback, open-loop gain being greater than the audio band, etc...which also may be factors. I may blather away a little more about that in the future.
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MisterRogers

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You can blather all you want Jason - I (and I'm sure others) appreciate the insights into what you've learned, what you've built, and whatever else. Audio / Audio Electronics keeps me engaged because I don't see an end to what I can learn. Thanks for helping 'learn' me :-)
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ultrabike

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The main problem I have with him is that--unlike other writers like Cordell--he acts as a demagogue, declaring anything that deviates from his designs as "undesirable" or even not "allowable." See his latest rant on Class A amplifiers. Any topologies or approaches that deviate from his, whether CFA, folded cascode, single voltage gain stage, no overall feedback, tube gain, tubes, transformers, Class A, hell, even just using JFETs in the input stage--are instantly dismissed, and in sharply judgmental terms.

In my opinion, this kind of demagoguery not only causes divisiveness (by the acolytes convinced that there is One True Path) and actively inhibits any real advancement, since, hey, if the 5532 is the ultimate expression of what is needed for audio (per Self), why ever try for more?

As far as JFETs I see what you mean. Just skimmed through this bit:

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278805&page_number=1
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278866
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278963&page_number=1
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279027

Not sure, but I guess he likes the 5532.

"With horrible inevitability, the very popularity and excellent technical performance of the 5532 has led to it being criticized by subjectivists who have contrived to convince themselves that they can tell op-amps apart by listening to music played through them. This always makes me laugh, because there is probably no music on the planet that has not passed through a hundred or more 5532s on its way to the consumer." - Douglas Self.

Not sure why DS is laughing. The fact that the 5532 is widely used has proly more to do with economics and not cuz the 5532 is a wire-with-gain. Likely many consoles impart their own characteristics to the recorded music. Perhaps even more significantly so, music goes through room coloration at a studio and sometimes very desirably so. And weren't many well regarded recordings made with tube amp ridden consoles, which were specifically picked for their sound qualities? Think I saw that in the Sound City video or something.

Also, as far as I could tell there were BJT OpAmps that didn't do too great (OP270) and JFETs that kicked some ass (Difet OPA627), by DS own standards. Only thing to bitch about the OPA627 I guess is the price. Again, that was a JFET OpAmp that kicked some serious ass, price aside. Also, don't think by his own measurements, that the OPA2134 did bad at all in some configurations.

I see a bit of pulling the "too expensive" card if random OpAmp kicks beloved NE5532's ass, but just in case there is a possible new "champion": LM4562 (Nw's OpAmp to rule them all)

And BTW, what does the Cambridge Audio 840e preamp has for headphone amp and perhaps balanced inputs? Apparently the awesomely awesome NE5532!

According to The Absolute Sound:

"By any standard the Cambridge Audio Azur 840E and 840W rank as excellent components and at roughly $4200, a supernatural deal."

All those supernatural savings proly coming from the awesomely awesome <$1 NE5532.
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DaveBSC

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According to The Absolute Sound:

"By any standard the Cambridge Audio Azur 840E and 840W rank as excellent components and at roughly $4200, a supernatural deal."

All those supernatural savings proly coming from the awesomely awesome <$1 NE5532.

HAH! Just like Cambridge's $5K transport killing 840 CD player. When TAS decides to pump up a brand, they go all in.

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Anaxilus

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"With horrible inevitability, the very popularity and excellent technical performance of the 5532 has led to it being criticized by subjectivists who have contrived to convince themselves that they can tell op-amps apart by listening to music played through them. This always makes me laugh, because there is probably no music on the planet that has not passed through a hundred or more 5532s on its way to the consumer." - Douglas Self.


Yup, I wonder how much he clings to that logic considering the number of tracks that have passed through tube gear on their way to all those consumers...

Nvm, we know it doesn't because logic is just too inconvenient sometimes.  I also find the idea that most of the music that reaches consumers being reference quality to be laughable.  Someone should start listening and stop talking.
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Anaxilus

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According to The Absolute Sound:

"By any standard the Cambridge Audio Azur 840E and 840W rank as excellent components and at roughly $4200, a supernatural deal."

All those supernatural savings proly coming from the awesomely awesome <$1 NE5532.

HAH! Just like Cambridge's $5K transport killing 840 CD player. When TAS decides to pump up a brand, they go all in.



I had the Cambridge Audio Azur 351C to test side by side against the PS Audio PWT, Oppo BDP-105, Tascam/Teac CD200, and both Marantz 5004 (modded) and 6004 against my vintage Denon.  It was nothing really all that special.  It did come in third behind the Marantz 5004 and my Denon and had rather sketchy build quality.
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schiit

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Let me highlight the inflammatory and judgmental aspects of this quote, then I will shut up about it:

"With horrible inevitability, the very popularity and excellent technical performance of the 5532 has led to it being criticized by subjectivists who have contrived to convince themselves that they can tell op-amps apart by listening to music played through them. This always makes me laugh, because there is probably no music on the planet that has not passed through a hundred or more 5532s on its way to the consumer."

For example, does the above do anything that this impartial rewrite does not--besides incite anger?

Although the 5532 delivers excellent measured performance, and has been used widely in mastering consoles, some listeners believe that it is not a truly transparent device, and is bettered by other op-amps."


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Anaxilus

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Let me highlight the inflammatory and judgmental aspects of this quote, then I will shut up about it:

"With horrible inevitability, the very popularity and excellent technical performance of the 5532 has led to it being criticized by subjectivists who have contrived to convince themselves that they can tell op-amps apart by listening to music played through them. This always makes me laugh, because there is probably no music on the planet that has not passed through a hundred or more 5532s on its way to the consumer."

For example, does the above do anything that this impartial rewrite does not--besides incite anger?

Although the 5532 delivers excellent measured performance, and has been used widely in mastering consoles, some listeners believe that it is not a truly transparent device, and is bettered by other op-amps."




There was another dude who recently made waves by writing and making claims EXACTLY like that before tucking tail and disappearing.

It always completely AMAZED me that people could write like that and others just suck it up like non biased objective truth.  Seems dangerous to me many people are so eager to accept or ignore such behavior.
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

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