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Author Topic: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.  (Read 1867 times)

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anetode

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2014, 03:20:37 PM »
240 TDA1543s? It's kind of like advocating 1000 grit sandpaper for a slip 'n' slide. Yes, it's better than using 40 grit, but still... why??
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anetode

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2014, 03:24:46 PM »
Quote from: Anaxilus on September 24, 2014, 03:45:16 PM
The problem that myself, Jason and others have stated is that while they might produce something that sounds acceptable or 'good', their approach dismisses the potential for anything better.  Theirs is the 'reference' approach and any design that deviates is sacrilege to physics and basic science.  Not to mention hearing anything to sound better is also tantamount to any combination of ignorance/placebo/confirmation bias/psychological delusion.

Also, no one here has ever said you can measure anything too much.  In fact, most of us have been adamant that many of the so called self proclaimed measurements crowd aren't measuring enough or are measuring the wrong things.  This is because many of those folk haven't bothered to correlate actual listening and musical experience to such measurements.  Listening and hearing is untrustworthy.  The ears and brain are always deceivers.  Hell, many profess most sensory input to be basically illusory.  Most read a forceful blurb, article or a few notes and think to themselves, "Ah hah!  I got it all figured out now."  That attitude and approach is anathema to progress and basically human interaction tbh.

It's simply easier for some folks to feel secure in a blanket of half truths rather than go naked into what often times is a wilderness of ignorance.  In that I mean no matter how much we know, we are all ignorant in an absolute epistemological sense so we should approach the world as such.  That's really the core of the scientific approach and method.  Assuming that we know nothing, rather than knowing everything and confirming that bias.

What the hell are you on about?
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Anaxilus

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2014, 08:34:14 PM »
Quote from: anetode on September 27, 2014, 03:24:46 PM

What the hell are you on about?


You know exactly what I'm talking about.  You can start here.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/685704/oppo-pm-1-a-new-planar-magnetic-headphone/2490#post_10914588

Or you can start at every post this clown or clowns like him and his type of crowd have ever made.
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wnmnkh

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2014, 11:49:48 AM »
Quote from: Anaxilus on September 30, 2014, 08:34:14 PM
Quote from: anetode on September 27, 2014, 03:24:46 PM

What the hell are you on about?


You know exactly what I'm talking about.  You can start here.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/685704/oppo-pm-1-a-new-planar-magnetic-headphone/2490#post_10914588

Or you can start at every post this clown or clowns like him and his type of crowd have ever made.

Yep. Sometimes I wonder who's objectivist and who's subjectivist after a while. There are too many people relying on selective memory to make argument.
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Maxx134

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2015, 03:38:44 AM »
Quote from: Anaxilus on September 30, 2014, 08:34:14 PM
You know exactly what I'm talking about.  You can start here.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/685704/oppo-pm-1-a-new-planar-magnetic-headphone/2490#post_10914588

Or you can start at every post this clown or clowns like him and his type of crowd have ever made.
Lol OMG that is so funny as I wasn't thinking of that clown,
but it is so be fitting lol!
They are running rampant over there.
Too many fools like that   being stumbling blocks to members learning progress in this audio industry.

Makes me think they are haters.. of hearing.
Whatever happened to "Hearing is believing"?
They can't trust their ears so they stumble on incomplete measuring tools and fool the ignorant.
Makes me remember a clasd long ago where the dam  college professor was expounding how feedback made the opamp the best design ever.

I was lucky to have had a teacher to show me his best measuring instrument, in which he relied on and which his livelihood relied on...
his EARS..
He was a recording engineer and used his ear to make judgements on microphone placement and never looked at dial or slider positions.
He told me if he didn't hear what he needed to keep adjusting, keep moving that dial untill it sounded right..

To TRUST YOUR EARS..
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The human ear is capable of detecting ONE hydrogen atom,
yet the brain's processing of sound,
 filters these constant occurrences out (!)
So when they say, "I can't hear a difference", you can say,
"It's all in your mind"! :p

Ringingears

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2015, 04:30:55 AM »
Since becoming part of this community  of obsessives, I think I am of the "trust, your ears, , but also look at  measurements" crowd.  They don't always  explain the sound you hear, but they do give you more information than just your ears. However, you must have competent people doing the measurements and also understand what they might mean. Seems some folks on certain sites just repeat what they read elsewhere. Why say you haven't heard something, but expect or just say it  sounds good, or bad because"."..............???????
It still comes down to what makes you get drawn into the music. I must agree, the people on certain sites really lead newcomers down a path of spending money and dispensing mis-information. Had it happen to more than once in the past . At least here we can call bullshit. And in that spirit I call bullshit on myself.  :)p13
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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2015, 03:55:45 PM »
Quote from: Maxx134 on January 15, 2015, 03:38:44 AM
Makes me think they are haters.. of hearing.
Whatever happened to "Hearing is believing"?
They can't trust their ears so they stumble on incomplete measuring tools and fool the ignorant.

Nobody hates hearing/Listening. If they did, they'd set up the gear, set up the music, check the "measurements" ...and go out.

Quote (selected)
He was a recording engineer and used his ear to make judgements on microphone placement and never looked at dial or slider positions.
He told me if he didn't hear what he needed to keep adjusting, keep moving that dial untill it sounded right.

Which invalidates measurements ...how? If he didn't know his measurements he wouldn't even know which dial to tweak.

No doubt you are right that a little knowledge can be worse than none. I have less than a little knowledge, but try to learn about the measurements and, for instance, how to use EQ to compensate for the frequencies I don't hear very well. I also very occasionally make some half-arsed attempt at blind comparison of something where I'm not convinced, or I think I'm hearing something that should not be there. I'd do it a lot more if I wasn't extremely lazy.

The brain not only filters what the ears feed it, but I think there is some feedback system too: the brain also tells the ears what to hear. Don't trust your ears: decide if you can trust your brain. That's the important thing.

But, above all, and most of the time... put all this admittedly extremely interesting technical stuff on one side and just enjoy music.

That's what I do. But, sadly, I find that there are places on the net where even a trace of sympathy for anything objective at all leads to one being branded as some kind of monster who wouldn't know the emotion of music if it kneed  them hard between the legs and, as that kind of audiophile is usually not very good at listening (how do they ever enjoy music?) it's not much help telling them that, hey, music is what I am into to, not graphs and numbers.

hey-ho... just another rant, and probably off-topic. Feel free to consign to mental garbage :)

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Maxx134

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2015, 02:49:59 AM »
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on January 15, 2015, 03:55:45 PM
...
hey-ho... just another rant, and probably off-topic. Feel free to consign to mental garbage :)


There has to be a balance and growth without one ideology dismissing the other, guided by common sense, not irrational extremes which end up getting nowhere by being at odds...
kinda like science and religion being placed at odds when they naturally would benifit each other, reaching further understanding  if they were together.. .
blab done.
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The human ear is capable of detecting ONE hydrogen atom,
yet the brain's processing of sound,
 filters these constant occurrences out (!)
So when they say, "I can't hear a difference", you can say,
"It's all in your mind"! :p

Thad E Ginathom

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Re: Purely speculative - Rag, Yggy, Theta - how tech development affects sound, etc.
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2015, 11:03:09 AM »
Quote from: Maxx134 on January 16, 2015, 02:49:59 AM
There has to be a balance and growth without one ideology dismissing the other, guided by common sense, not irrational extremes which end up getting nowhere by being at odds...

Totally agree. Part of the problem is that they have become "ideologies," rather than simple practical combination of engineering, tools and experience.
 
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