Topic: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience) (Read 4645 times)

ultrabike · « **Reply #30 on:** September 15, 2014, 05:38:20 AM »

BTW, here is the online service manual for the A-S2000 higher end stereo (circlotron like) amp:

http://sportsbil.com/yamaha/A-S2000.pdf

The headphone out is rated 30 mW into 32 ohm, so it's probably 30 mA max (current limited). Dunno what the output impedance is. However the A-S1000 is 100 ohms (23 mW into 32 ohms), so proly also 100 ohms:

http://quality-and-performance.com/FILES/AUDIO-SERVICEMANUALS/YAMAHA%20A-S1000.pdf

The service manuals include all things that would make KG happy: assembly, adjustment instructions (including headphone), Custom 8-bit microcontroller IC datasheet (including pin-out), block diagram, printed circuit board layouts, schematics, and BOM.

Here is the Onkyo TX-SR602 manual for reference: http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-sr702_602_manual_e.pdf.

RexAeterna · « **Reply #31 on:** September 15, 2014, 06:44:24 AM »

thanks for the manual. will read little of it once again later on. i had the manual on my phone but was pain in the booty to read so i never bothered finishing.

i assumed your yamaha being most if all discrete cause yamaha still makes good stuff. i never really meant your yamaha in particular being class d. i just meant newer models i read with brands(including yamaha) are making class d amps in there newer possibly low-end/entry digital receivers/amps and might continue trend in the upper parts maybe like how the pioneer elite models do to make things more efficient but im going to assume like onkyo,harman kardon, and denon they will continue to make their amps/receivers class A/B design i believe on the most part.

i know harman kardon still makes stuff like they use to but are pricey. one reason people stay away from them though is their modest power ratings but don't know they design them well to deliver double the output down to 2ohm loads for atleast front channels/stereo use. people don't realize too that they're using most likely nothing more then a few watts anyways depending on sensitivity of their speakers and room size. if you really driven pair of speakers at 100 or say crazy few hundred watts your ears will not only be fully blown but probably deteriorate or something.

i know my 602 is basically same as 601 but added channel and mic feature or something. i don't know if any sacrifices were cut since quickly searching weight comprehension of the 601 at 26.7lbs compared to 602 being at 30lbs considering onkyo spec sheet on there website. the 602 still has same complaint as the 601 of running warm. just 602 gets more criticized due to the crappy mic calibration thing added. i know the onkyo supposedly can output up to 330w@3ohms(for front channels only) which is not too bad.

RexAeterna · « **Reply #32 on:** September 16, 2014, 02:49:29 AM »

Quote from: ultrabike on September 15, 2014, 05:38:20 AM

BTW, here is the online service manual for the A-S2000 higher end stereo (circlotron like) amp:

http://sportsbil.com/yamaha/A-S2000.pdf

The headphone out is rated 30 mW into 32 ohm, so it's probably 30 mA max (current limited). Dunno what the output impedance is. However the A-S1000 is 100 ohms (23 mW into 32 ohms), so proly also 100 ohms:

http://quality-and-performance.com/FILES/AUDIO-SERVICEMANUALS/YAMAHA%20A-S1000.pdf

The service manuals include all things that would make KG happy: assembly, adjustment instructions (including headphone), Custom 8-bit microcontroller IC datasheet (including pin-out), block diagram, printed circuit board layouts, schematics, and BOM.

Here is the Onkyo TX-SR602 manual for reference: http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-sr702_602_manual_e.pdf.

i looked up the s-a2000....2000 bucks though? i know it's built with high quality parts money can buy and built solidliy with fully balanced connectors but the price i think is kinda ridiculous. it's probably cause the dacs and digital processing it does as well but i think for plain ol stereo probably do much better at lower price. i know i looked up the s-a500 as well and while retailing for 399 and can be found cheap as 250 i still find it cutting it close to being too costly on what you get but i guess since everything is expensive nowadays i guess it's consider a bargain if looking for something new.

the a-s500 has a 470ohm output impedance cause i remember seeing thread on head-fi bout the highly praised a-s500. i'm guessing the a-s2000 probably be somewhere around 100-120ohm standard if it is.

i still don't understand why yamaha still uses the ''variable loudness control''. i find it annoying and no way to shut it off either. even keeping it at the ''neutral'' state your still gonna get some effect from the loudness control which can make things sound more powerful in the bass and bright in the top. that's why i like separates and found the m-XX series a godsend and best of the series cause only their certain matching preamps had the annoying ''variable loudness'' while the power amps were...just well...power amps.

i still like yamaha though and of course the a-s500 and a-s2000 probably sound super great as well but i just don't know. if i ever find an a-s500 for 150 or under then i probably give it a shot but that's ''maybe''.

ultrabike · « **Reply #33 on:** September 16, 2014, 05:10:21 AM »

Yeah. I'm kind of value driven as well. I mentioned the A-S2000 cuz it's a circlotron (MOSFET) topology like the Schiit Rag, but for a little more $. There is a cheaper BJT circlotron version (A-S1000) w/o the balanced connectivity, but still pricy.

Luis mentioned the JBL 4311, SVS tube sub, placement, and calibration as things that will bring awesomeness. But I'm kind of area constrained. Will see how things turn out in the future as kids grow up and budget.

BTW, I know you had some vintage Sansui stuff, how does it compare to the Onkyo and Yamaha you have had in general?

DaveBSC · « **Reply #34 on:** September 16, 2014, 07:50:29 AM »

Quote from: RexAeterna on September 16, 2014, 02:49:29 AM

i looked up the s-a2000....2000 bucks though? i know it's built with high quality parts money can buy and built solidliy with fully balanced connectors but the price i think is kinda ridiculous.

Trust me, it's not worth it. There's topology and there's what you do with it. The amplifiers from Naim and Simaudio at the same price level are simply in a different league. My experience with the A-S2000 was extreme bland-fi.

ultrabike · « **Reply #35 on:** September 16, 2014, 08:06:14 AM »

I know your comment is related to the TOTL Yammy stereo amps which are in the kilobuck range. But any of those (Naim & Simaudio) in the $125 to $350 range? (used & good condition market applicable question)

EDIT: other brands may apply too

DaveBSC · « **Reply #36 on:** September 16, 2014, 12:32:48 PM »

Quote from: ultrabike on September 16, 2014, 08:06:14 AM

I know your comment is related to the TOTL Yammy stereo amps which are in the kilobuck range. But any of those (Naim & Simaudio) in the $125 to $350 range? (used & good condition market applicable question)

EDIT: other brands may apply too

That's a tall order I'm afraid. I picked up the Nait 5i I use in my living room for $650 (list was around $1700, currently I think around $1895 for the 5si) but prices even for the original 5i which is now around 10 years old are usually closer to $800. Sim amps are generally hard to find for much under $1K.

For under $300, an Onkyo TX-8020 or 8050 or Yamaha R-S300 is probably your best bet. You'll find used Cambridge amps or occasionally older Arcam amps and the like for similar money, but I'm not sure they're any better. You do occasionally see a Virtue TWO.2 for that sort of cash which is an amp I quite like, but that's really only suited to the desktop or with very efficient speakers or headphones.

Colgin · « **Reply #37 on:** September 16, 2014, 02:56:58 PM »

I have a fairly recent Marantz AVR. I tried in vain to get specs on the headphone out. There was nothing online. I called Marantz and even after checking their manual all they could tell me was the power was coming from the main power amp and cut back through the use of resistors. They did not know the output impedance but I am guessing around 120 ohms give or take based on other similar receivers I have read about.

The Marantz drives my AKG Q701 just fine. It is dead quiet (I have turned the volume way up with nothing playing) and can go to deafening volumes if I wanted it to (I don't BTW). At first I was concerned that the amps limitations was part of the reason for the low bass impact, but over time I have learned that is just how the AKG is. I have tried the Q701 on a variety of mid-priced SS amps and didn't really think they were much different or better. These were not close A/B comparisons. Just that after listening to my cans on other setups at meets I came away thinking the AKGs are what they are and slightly-better amping, short of very high-end or tubes, wasn't going to make too much of a difference.

Azteca X · « **Reply #38 on:** September 16, 2014, 09:10:02 PM »

Quote from: RexAeterna on September 12, 2014, 10:38:40 PM

Quote from: LFF on September 12, 2014, 06:01:56 PM
I thought it was only good if it had shiny labels on the front saying it had at least 200w per channel x 9.8 and the THX logo on it.

That said, I've always liked Onkyo and Yamaha.

Haha, I actually use to think the same. The fancy thx features never interested me but I got this onkyo for good price compared to other options they had. Was just surprised cause it performed better then expected. I always wanted an onkyo power amp in the past cause I heard good things about them but always stuck with sansui, Yamaha, and Harman kardon. I was going to find a harman kardon cause I heard they still stick to the dual-mono low negative feedback design in there modern amps/receivers but went for the onkyo. Onkyo seems to fellow little of same design to Harman based off what they call wide range amplifier low negative feedback method.

To derail slightly, I have a ~$400 Harman Kardon 2 channel receiver (no video functionality) and I really haven't had any itch to upgrade without spending quite a bit more. Sounds great at low volumes, too. At this point the room (and partially my speakers) are bottlenecks more than anything else.
http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/hk-3490

RexAeterna · « **Reply #39 on:** September 17, 2014, 01:34:32 AM »

Quote from: ultrabike on September 16, 2014, 05:10:21 AM

Yeah. I'm kind of value driven as well. I mentioned the A-S2000 cuz it's a circlotron (MOSFET) topology like the Schiit Rag, but for a little more $. There is a cheaper BJT circlotron version (A-S1000) w/o the balanced connectivity, but still pricy.

Luis mentioned the JBL 4311, SVS tube sub, placement, and calibration as things that will bring awesomeness. But I'm kind of area constrained. Will see how things turn out in the future as kids grow up and budget.

BTW, I know you had some vintage Sansui stuff, how does it compare to the Onkyo and Yamaha you have had in general?

i owned sansui 5000x and sansui au-d7. the 5000x was the only considered TOTL receiver i ever owned since at that time and series was when the 5000 was actually the top model. i really liked the 5000x was probably one of my favorite receivers. i liked it more to the yamaha r-9 and found the 5000x having more clarity and sounding great with headphones and speaker despite people saying sansui is known to give ''warm'' sounding gear. i don't remember if the sansui 5000x was warm to me but liked it's clarity and torque it had while the au-d7 was more of less impressive to me comparing to the 5000x. the au-d7 had clarity and sounded bit more spacey so to say but the midrange sounded too weird on my speakers and headphones and did not like the tone controls too much.

i kinda miss the sansui 5000x i had and if i ever spot one locally again i defiantly pick one up. i traded mine at the time cause i was not using it and wanted to try separates so i got the h/k 700 set out of it(H/K 725 preamp and H/K 770 dual-mono power amp) and i needed a preamp too at the time for my yamaha m-45. it was just hooked straight to my interface at the time which sounded great but wanted to have better and easier control over the volume with a single knob.

i believe anax has a 5000x too. you could ask him about the sound. been over 2 years since i owned one but i remember loving mine when i had it. i think it's only receiver he likes using with his hd800's. i just remember being blown away using my sextetts lp with the 5000x and found sextetts far better headphone compared to my studios and i remember really loving the modded yamaha hp-1 i had on loan with the 5000x.

Author Topic: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience) (Read 4645 times)

ultrabike

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

RexAeterna

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

RexAeterna

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

ultrabike

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

DaveBSC

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

ultrabike

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

DaveBSC

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

Colgin

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

Azteca X

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

RexAeterna

Re: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience)

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Author Topic: are ht receivers that bad? i dont think so(my first experience) (Read 4645 times)