Topic: How should I "evaluate" speakers? (Read 6333 times)

Moodyz · « **Reply #30 on:** August 19, 2014, 09:02:45 PM »

Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on August 19, 2014, 08:14:08 PM

Yes, I think I could live with that too. The best sound I ever heard was in a TV studio --- and it was just background music, for guys setting up the scenery, coming from just one speaker. Mind you, the acoustics probably had as much to do with it as the source of the sound, and I would guess that those studios you visited were very well treated?

The higher-end ones I went to were obviously extremely well treated - floating floors, fully-ducted, ultra-quiet air-conditioning, etc. Visited this control room here in SIngapore a couple of months ago (a friend works in local TV, so I just tagged along on a weekend because we were heading somewhere else after that). Stunning place. Then there was this mixing/mastering studio where an acquaintance worked at back when I lived in England. Probably the best listening experience I've had in my life. Those PMCs were the mutts nuts!! A few other big studios, but I don't have links.

Even the home-based rigs I've experienced were very good though. One guy does mixing/mastering for TV ads, while a couple of other friends produce electronic music. The ATC near-field thing I mentioned is based on what I experienced at one of these places. ATC SCM25 Pros driven from a Grace M905 controller. Straight, honest sounds. The room was pretty bare though - not too large, no windows, some sort of acoutic softboards (no idea what the technical term is) on the walls and ceiling, but that was it. I'm sure the dude knows his stuff, judging from the sound quality (and his portfolio). Funny, the dude mentioned his setup being a bit unforgiving, so I expected an unmusical Yamaha NS-10 inspired sound, but what I heard was the opposite. It didn't flatter an overcompressed kick-drum or distorted bassline, but it didn't tire me out either. All the detail was there, but it wasn't shoved in my face. Oh, and the mids were gorgeous. For "audiophile" listening, all I'd add would probably be a "saturation stage" of some kind (you know, like the Silk function they have on Rupert Neve mixers or mic-pres), just to make it a bit more velvety, but that would be it. I'd be a happy camper many times over.

I doubt I'll ever go all-out with a speaker rig, though. Just too many variables to consider, room acoustics being the most daunting for a knob like myself. Plus I generally don't have the space since I live in a small studio apartment. Good to have a dream, I suppose. =P

Thad E Ginathom · « **Reply #31 on:** August 20, 2014, 09:30:36 AM »

Those studios look great. Knobs! Buttons! Sliders!

All wonderful stuff. I envy those who even know where to start with all that stuff.

Quote from: Moodyz on August 19, 2014, 09:02:45 PM

Good to have a dream, I suppose. =P

Here's some dream-powering material: Gearslutz, High-end Nearfield Test. It's a long, long thread though!

From the little I have heard so far of active monitors, I am thinking that it is my kind of sound. Very clean, delivering the music as it is. The earlier warning about the possibility of fatigue from very unforgiving monitors is noted, though.

Audio Jester · « **Reply #32 on:** August 20, 2014, 02:07:55 PM »

I tried a whole bunch of studio monitors recently and found them to be lacking in bass. You may want to consider a small sub to pair with them YMMV.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #33 on:** August 20, 2014, 04:23:34 PM »

Quote from: Audio Jester on August 20, 2014, 02:07:55 PM

I tried a whole bunch of studio monitors recently and found them to be lacking in bass. You may want to consider a small sub to pair with them YMMV.

That's pretty much inevitable, they have to follow the same laws of physics as passive two-way monitors. If you're going to run a powered studio/sub setup, you'll need to make sure that whatever preamp you're using can run its balanced and single ended outputs at the same time.

Thad E Ginathom · « **Reply #34 on:** August 20, 2014, 06:44:07 PM »

Quote from: Audio Jester on August 20, 2014, 02:07:55 PM

I tried a whole bunch of studio monitors recently and found them to be lacking in bass. You may want to consider a small sub to pair with them YMMV.

Any more or less than "bookshelves" of the same size from the hifi world? I think that, as DaveBSC says, that's just physics.

What size, anyway? They do not all have 4- or 5-inch woofers --- although mine probably will: both because of cost and the fact that my listening space (otherwise known as cupboard) can't cope with much bass. The do come big, biig, and biiiig too

With the tinies, though, yes, a sub-woofer would be nice, especially if bass guitar and pipe-organ music is on the menu. I believe I can live with out, having had 4-inch-woofer speakers for the past two or three years.

For those with hifi kit to connect, it is probably better to avoid the speakers with only balanced input. I was taking balanced out from my pc audio interface. Now I am taking unbalanced from a pre-amp. One can convert, both properly and with just a converter cable.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #35 on:** August 20, 2014, 07:35:12 PM »

Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on August 20, 2014, 06:44:07 PM

What size, anyway? They do not all have 4- or 5-inch woofers --- although mine probably will: both because of cost and the fact that my listening space (otherwise known as cupboard) can't cope with much bass. The do come big, biig, and biiiig too

For those with hifi kit to connect, it is probably better to avoid the speakers with only balanced input. I was taking balanced out from my pc audio interface. Now I am taking unbalanced from a pre-amp. One can convert, both properly and with just a converter cable.

I had Dynaudio studio monitors with 8" woofers for a little while. Same issue, there wasn't a whole lot going on below 45Hz or so. If you want anything below that you really need a sub, although some of the PMC monitors may be able to dig deeper thanks to their transmission line setups. A regular box with a hole in it just isn't going to go that low though, even with an 8" woofer. The cabinets just aren't big enough.

The 10" 3-way studio monitors can hit down into the 30Hz range, but those are big boxes and they tend to cost quite a bit of cash. The Genelecs for example are over $10K for the pair.

The other issue you'll run into with higher-end studio monitors is that they tend to be balanced only, usually XLR and TRS, or a single combo jack. The manufacturers don't expect them to be used with single-ended "hifi" applications, so the RCA jacks are left out. That's why a balanced pre is a good idea.

Moodyz · « **Reply #36 on:** August 20, 2014, 10:10:28 PM »

@DaveBSC
You mentioned Event Opals in a prior post. Don't those go low enough? I've heard them and they seemed to go down quite low for near-fields. Obviously not down to the low 20Hz range, but I'd guess somewhere around 35Hz or so, based on what I heard with music I was familiar with. Not quite subwoofer level, but lower than most 2-way stand/desk-mount offerings.

Beyond the Opals, I think a few 3-ways should be able to get to the 35Hz range (on paper, at least). Though going below that is probably a tough ask (not heard the Genelecs you mentioned). Even the smaller PMCs bottom-out at about 35Hz. Lower than that, the only one I can think of that's still meter-bridge/desktop compatible (only just) and does it cleanly enough would be the Unity Audio Boulder (in-built amplification by Esoteric Audio Research, a brand some pirates/head-fiers should be familiar with), though you're looking at $5K+ minimum by now.

If you don't want dual subs and all the complications they bring, then you'll probably have to go bigger (in cost, speaker size, and room considerations). The bigger PMCs and Geithains (maybe Barefoots) can probably do 20Hz.

Myself, taking my room into consideration, I think I could live with what the Opals bring. Would still dream of ATCs and PMCs, but reality would never be so kind.

Thad E Ginathom · « **Reply #37 on:** August 20, 2014, 10:14:33 PM »

Quote from: DaveBSC on August 20, 2014, 07:35:12 PM

I had Dynaudio studio monitors with 8" woofers for a little while. Same issue, there wasn't a whole lot going on below 45Hz or so. If you want anything below that you really need a sub, although some of the PMC monitors may be able to dig deeper thanks to their transmission line setups. A regular box with a hole in it just isn't going to go that low though, even with an 8" woofer. The cabinets just aren't big enough.

The 10" 3-way studio monitors can hit down into the 30Hz range, but those are big boxes and they tend to cost quite a bit of cash. The Genelecs for example are over $10K for the pair.

The other issue you'll run into with higher-end studio monitors is that they tend to be balanced only, usually XLR and TRS, or a single combo jack. The manufacturers don't expect them to be used with single-ended "hifi" applications, so the RCA jacks are left out. That's why a balanced pre is a good idea.

Oh yes, I agree that it would be --- but, in my case, it is not what I have got.

The smaller models from some companies are pretty-much sold as multi-medi speakers, and may have RCA connectors. But probably most/all will be too small for that bass.

If and when (a headphone upgrade is supposed to come first) I get there, then I'll face the bal/unbal problem. It isn't going to happen, for me, before 2015 at the earliest.

Here's something I came across on the net earlier today: Abacus C-Box. Albeit active, it looks aimed at a more domestic market, and at a very reasonable price. It seems to "go lower" than its size suggests it should, too. Any thoughts?

Oh... maybe this is all getting a bit too specific about ejaculating studio/active monitors...

Moodyz · « **Reply #38 on:** August 20, 2014, 10:21:25 PM »

Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on August 20, 2014, 10:14:33 PM

Here's something I came across on the net earlier today: Abacus C-Box. Albeit active, it looks aimed at a more domestic market, and at a very reasonable price. It seems to "go lower" than its size suggests it should, too. Any thoughts?

I'm pretty much a speaker noob, but 1.6L cab and 2.2kg kerb weight = 35Hz?? O_O
Damn. I must be behind the times.

anetode · « **Reply #39 on:** August 20, 2014, 11:11:24 PM »

Quote from: Moodyz on August 20, 2014, 10:21:25 PM

Event Opal

Guessing active crossover + PEQ boost + maybe servo feedback.

Author Topic: How should I "evaluate" speakers? (Read 6333 times)

Moodyz

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

Thad E Ginathom

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

Audio Jester

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

DaveBSC

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

Thad E Ginathom

Re: How should I "ejaculate" speakers?

DaveBSC

Re: How should I "ejaculate" speakers?

Moodyz

Re: How should I "ejaculate" speakers?

Thad E Ginathom

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

Moodyz

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

anetode

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

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Author Topic: How should I "evaluate" speakers? (Read 6333 times)