Topic: How should I "evaluate" speakers? (Read 6333 times)

tomscy2000 · « **on:** August 18, 2014, 04:44:43 PM »

So, for the last couple of hi-fi shows that I've been attending, I've been listening attentively to high-end speaker setups to see what the fuss is all about. This past weekend, I managed to listen to the Avalon Tesseract driven by a PASS Labs stack, as well as the Magico Q7 with a dCS Vivaldi source (forgot what it was driven by), and I came away enjoying lower priced setups such as the KEF Reference 5 and the Tannoy Canterbury GR with ST200 supertweeters running off an Esoteric stack. Also heard a Sonus Faber Aida running off a McIntosh stack, but I was too tired to listen carefully.

From my experience, flagship setups all seem tuned for old people that think they still have good hearing. They're all too crispy and strident at the top end for an enjoyable listening experience. It's possible that because it's a show, they're driving them to loud volumes that most people wouldn't necessarily listen at, but it's quite irritating. Yes, they all sound good, and the flagship models seem to best exude size of sound best, but I came away more involved musically from listening to the KEF and Tannoy. Something about point source speakers speaks to me, especially with regard to the imaging. I'm still especially enamoured with the Tannoy, whose smooth, slightly laid-back top end just seems enjoyable to listen to. It's something that I can envision coming home to, rather than the banshee screeching of TOTL setups.

I do recognize that, on some level, the TOTL speakers are better. But they don't feel better. And I can't be sure whether or not I'm just not listening to them "correctly" or not. For example, while the Magico was authoritative and effortless throughout, I couldn't help but feel that its imaging somehow felt flat. I mean, the setup they're running costs half a million, and the imaging can somehow feel flat? I don't get it.

The Tesseract managed to sound a little nicer than the Magico, if only because I was in a larger-sized room and it projected its power well. It's also one of the coolest-looking speakers around.

Anyway, I don't know whether I'm evaluating these speakers "wrong" or what. But I do end up liking "lower-end" setups more than TOTL every single time.

Pictures:

The "lowly" Tannoy Stirling GR and ST200 --- really enjoyable in a small room.

The KEF Reference 5 --- pretty solid performance from top to bottom, great smooth high end, but still detailed.

Magico Q7 and dCS Vivaldi --- thought angels were going to sing into my ear; I thought wrong.

Avalon Tesseract --- looks uber cool in person.

thegunner100 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2014, 05:21:10 PM »

I'd like to hear some opinions on this as well, since the only experience I have with speakers is the low-end stuff. I'll be attending the NY Audio Show next month and would like to get some tips.

alphaphoenix · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2014, 05:43:20 PM »

Same here. I'll be jumping into speakers in a year or two after some house remodeling. I recall a few years ago, I was auditioning a few setups at my local Definitive Audio and Magnolia and despite what the sales guy's persuasion for the higher price sets, my ears were never set on the highest price set. I know that price bias comes into play as I'm not one to spend the extra coin for 1-4% perceived gain.

When the transition from headphones to speakers finally comes, I know there will be some major adjustments due to the cluster of attributes that are unique between them, and to what I'm currently accustom to. And unlike headphones/iem/ciem, I can't afford to cycle through this and that to find one that sounds heavenly for all genres and their respective tracks.

I don't know if it's heresy here, but is the book, "Introduction Guide to High-Performance Audio Systems" by Robert Harley a good reference source?

Deep Funk · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2014, 07:58:29 PM »

Play Massive Attack's "Angel"? When the music does not give you the right feeling, then

DaveBSC · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2014, 11:32:37 PM »

I'm not surprised. As with most things in this hobby, "you get what you pay for" is and has pretty much always been 100% false. Magico is a total hype machine brand. The mags just LOVE to plaster the latest Magico (there's seemingly a new model every month) all over their covers. THE WORLD'S BEST??? MAGICO DOES IT AGAIN!!! Yada yada yada. Ignore.

Avalon used to be the darling of everybody years and years ago, but they kind of fell off the map for awhile. You can only review the Eidolon so many times I guess.

Some speakers are just not going to work for you, it doesn't matter what they cost or how gushing the reviews are. There's nothing wrong with you, chances are much more likely that there's something wrong with the speakers. Show conditions are also of course never ideal. I'm a big fan of Daedalus, but they've often struggled in show conditions and don't sound as good as I know they can. Part of the issue is that Lou usually wants to bring his flagships along... and his subwoofers, and he ends up with bass overload because of room mode problems.

Of the megabuck brands that I've had a chance to experience, I've generally enjoyed listening to Rockports, Tidals, NOLAs, Ventures, and in the right setup, Raidhos and Estelons. I look at them all as sort of interesting curiosities though, I don't ever have any expectation of dropping $30K+ on these things.

About the highest I could see going is one of the pairs of Eggleston Andra IIIs that's often on Audiogon in the $11K range. The Andra is pretty much the opposite of an "old person's speaker." It loves to rock and roll.

LFF · « **Reply #5 on:** August 19, 2014, 12:29:08 AM »

I'm going to go against the grain and say that most TOTL speakers are utter shit.

I've been to many a high end show and have been disappointed time and time again by these high end shenanigans.

"Oh LFF, you're so mean! You know those speakers aren't set up in ideal conditions!"

Yes, that is true, but I have also had the displeasure of listening to many a high-end set-up in properly treated rooms at nice homes. They still sound like shit.

Magico is probably some of the worst speakers I have ever heard, along with MBL. It seems that the only people who can afford them are rich 50 and 60 year olds who no longer hear anything past 9kHz. Why? Because these speakers are so damn bright!

Another thing that pisses me off is when they refuse to play your music. You can only listen to their authorized demos of Norah Jones, Patricia Barber, Diana Krall, or some random craptastic recording of a harp or guitar being plucked.

Honestly, one of the best speakers I ever heard was at a San Francisco headphone meet. I forgot whose speaker that was or who made it but DAMN...it sounded extremely impressive. Low rating in the looks department but the sound was truly glorious. It's nice to see people who care more about sound quality than dollar signs.

Tyll Hertsens · « **Reply #6 on:** August 19, 2014, 01:34:27 AM »

If I went with high-end speakers, I think I'd be looking at Green Mountain Audio.

http://greenmountainaudio.com

tomscy2000 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 19, 2014, 01:37:32 AM »

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who things these TOTL speakers have jarring treble responses.

BTW, this show is in Taipei, and according to most of the audio critics at the usual suspects, the Taiwanese are customarily great at room treatment, so apparently I'm hearing good setups. However, at all Asian shows, people like to play audiophile test CDs, and their idea of a demonstration CD is one with a built in A-weighted curve, ruining the inherent transparency of most systems anyway.

For example, Usher speakers, a local brand that is usually known by foreign press for bang-for-buck products, likes to use these tracks with a heavy emphasis on the Chinese flute and muddy drums. The range of the Chinese flute basically overpowers anything else on the track, and the muddy drums don't do any transducers any favors, so it's no wonder critics like to say that Usher speakers aren't super articulate. Another hilarious thing that I saw at the show was Focal playing 'Transformers 3' through the Utopia Scala V2. I didn't even bother listening.

Focal's Aria line with the flax cones seem to have pretty good performance for the price, though, even if they're also tuned too bright.

The KEF Reference 5 was about as bright as I thought was reasonable, so I ended up enjoying them. I think I have a thing for coaxial speakers, as I've liked every single Tannoy speaker I've come across. They're not super detailed, but they're just all nice to listen to. I do also like the balance of Harbeths, but find their low end too spongy and slow.

Realistically, I'm looking at a company that is local to Taiwan. They originated machining speaker enclosures for Fostex and other companies, but are now branching out to developing kits and assembled units of single unit full-range designs. They're made to be affordable, but pretty high in quality, as they manufacture everything in-house, but a nice entry-level bookshelf setup with good Tangband drivers would probably cost me $600 total.

LFF · « **Reply #8 on:** August 19, 2014, 02:50:39 AM »

These were the only speakers to truly impress me at T.H.E. Show this past year.

http://www.fritzspeakers.com/

The guy who makes them is a genuinely nice guy and he actually cares about the music. No crappy Diana Krall or Patricia Barber in his room. The sound was punchy, dynamic, and very natural. They really were the best I heard there those days.

Moreover, he wasn't pushing the volume to 11. I think the volume setting was at 2. That's one way how you can really appreciate a good speaker...does it sound equally as good at low volumes as it does at high volumes. In Fritz's case...YES.

firev1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 19, 2014, 04:13:58 AM »

I dunno, my younger friends had a good experience with Magico's at our local(Singapore) showroom, perhaps the room was setup very nicely. Tomscy's experience does resonate with mine in a huge number of showrooms though, where they tend to play slow strings to complement the speakers and some setups come out too bright. Some of them start to fall apart with the rock tracks I put in(along with disapproving faces of the salesman at me).

Actually my most no BS experience came up from a Harbeth room/store where the setup looked a lot like a home one and still came up fantastic sounding albeit with the typical colouration you get from their sound signature but still no BS.

Author Topic: How should I "evaluate" speakers? (Read 6333 times)

tomscy2000

How should I "evaluate" speakers?

thegunner100

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

alphaphoenix

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

Deep Funk

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

DaveBSC

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

LFF

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

Tyll Hertsens

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

tomscy2000

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

LFF

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

firev1

Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?

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Author Topic: How should I "evaluate" speakers? (Read 6333 times)