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Author Topic: How should I "evaluate" speakers?  (Read 6333 times)

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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 10:18:01 AM »

I wish that there were audio shows, hi-end or not, in my home town. They may happen in Delhi, Mumbai, etc, but not here. We have had a couple of local-forum-organised hifi meets, with dealers giving demos. At the last one, I found more problem with bass thumping than with treble shrieking. However, I am a slightly-oldie who's hearing now starts to tail off at 8K  :)p18. A notable exception at a recent meet was the mentioned LS50: it was the most balanced dealer-demoed sound of the day.

We have seen Genelec, at a previous meet, and I was completely smitten. This was one of the models with built-in software-controlled room-correction DSP. The sound was, to me, pretty-much perfect. We also saw the tiny "PC speakers" and, really, nothing that small has any right to sound to sound that good --- but does anything that small have a right to cost that much?

I have heard MBL, both at a meet and in a house. The in-a-house experience I enjoyed very much. The things cost as much as my car did. New.
 
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Are studio monitors just a bad idea for small living rooms / bedrooms? I just listened to some Genelecs that were 1k - 1.2k USD, and they sounded really great, plus they're puny and self-powered.

Obviously from what I just said: I don't think they are a bad idea at all. I do most of my listening, these days, at the desk, and it is an ambition to replace my M-Audio AV-40s (great value for money!) with decent active studio monitors. Genelec and Adam are on my possibles list as well as some lower-end stuff and, of course, some in-my-dreams stuff (Geithain RL906).

Each to their own, of course. Personal preference is king, and a flat frequency response will not please either those who want booming bass or those who think that shrieking treble is "detail." Of course, without good room treatment, that FS is not going to stay flat anyway.

I do wonder why people demo hifi with such crap music, beit dismal pop or "audiophile" jazz. Of course, when we audition for ourselves we must listen with the music we know love --- and are going to play at home. But I do believe that nothing tests or shows off a system like classical orchestral music. Nothing has the dynamic or tonal range, nothing has such a complex soundstage. Of course, that's a bit of a problem for those that don't actually like it!

The piratical view (eyes, perhaps, not caught in the glare of the headlights) make me think that the shows I envy others the chance of attending might not actually be so desirable, and might give me more headache than pleasure/interest. 130dB! No chance to hear one's own music! Oh dear no, not if they actually want my money (which I haven't got, but they don't know that  :)p4 )

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Hroðulf

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2014, 11:43:53 AM »

Well, there are two components in my system that I can't see ever going away - the Sjostrom QRV-08 headamp and the KEF LS50 speakers. Just about everyone has been rabidly spewing out 5 star reviews about these speakers and this is one the rare cases where it might be justified.

As for studio monitors - be careful. They can have a signature that causes hearing fatigue. Also some monitors have a bad tendency to sound good only when playing really loud.
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tomscy2000

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2014, 02:53:09 PM »

Don't all TOTL speakers measure superbly via KLIPPEL and other measuring metrics? If so, why do they end up so strident? Is it the music they're playing? I want to hear some of these systems play tracks that don't have limiting compression to the nines, and play at reasonable ~75 dB volumes.
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DaveBSC

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2014, 03:00:22 PM »

Are studio monitors just a bad idea for small living rooms / bedrooms? I just listened to some Genelecs that were 1k - 1.2k USD, and they sounded really great, plus they're puny and self-powered.

Not necessarily. Some of them are designed to be absolutely merciless in order to help recording engineers hunt for flaws and so are either painful or just boring as hell to actually listen to, but not all of them are like that. The Neumanns and Event Opals are quite nice. Genelecs can be on the bright side IME, but the higher-end ones are pretty good.

The price of the Opals can get you some pretty superb traditional speakers though, so unless you absolutely do not want a separate amp for some reason, I think they stop making sense once you reach a certain price point.
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Moodyz

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2014, 04:34:08 PM »

If I ever wanted to get serious with a speaker setup, I'd get a pair of ATC near/mid-field active monitors, a decent DAC/preamp/monitor-controller, some Mogamis, a decent bespoke meter-bridge/desk (to route all cabling cos I hate clutter) and call it a day.  The few production/mastering/mixing studios I've visited seriously shat all over most of the ultra-fi audiophile showrooms I've been to.
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Anaxilus

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2014, 07:20:24 PM »

I checked out all the Sony staff after someone I respect rated them highly. AR1 has decent FR but is soulless, or lifeless,

Completely agree.
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anetode

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2014, 07:44:06 PM »

I don't know if it's heresy here, but is the book, "Introduction Guide to High-Performance Audio Systems" by Robert Harley a good reference source?

Personally I wouldn't trust Harley's word on any technical matter. I hear Collombs' "High Performance Loudspeakers" is better. Or go for real changstar heresy and read Toole's "Sound Reproduction" - I rather liked it.
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anetode

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2014, 07:47:31 PM »

Don't all TOTL speakers measure superbly via KLIPPEL and other measuring metrics? If so, why do they end up so strident? Is it the music they're playing? I want to hear some of these systems play tracks that don't have limiting compression to the nines, and play at reasonable ~75 dB volumes.

Not really. On Klippel multitone tests you often see something on the order of 10% distortion (which is why almost no one publishes those). The single-tone tests used for THD and the two-tone tests used for IMD don't tell the whole story.

Then you have dispersion issues coupled with room reflections which muddle up the soundstage, induce frequency irregularities through comb filtering and overload the high-mids and highs along with the crapshoot of room modes below 300hz.

Also there's the effect of the cabinet itself.

And the drivers - prior to KEF's last couple of generations of coaxials you'd see some nasty peaks in the 5-10khz area with those.
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Thad E Ginathom

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2014, 08:14:08 PM »

Well, there are two components in my system that I can't see ever going away - the Sjostrom QRV-08 headamp and the KEF LS50 speakers. Just about everyone has been rabidly spewing out 5 star reviews about these speakers and this is one the rare cases where it might be justified.

and they look just amazing. Guaranteed to beat almost everything in sighted testing ...and that's before the music even starts!

Nice to hear you are so happy with them. They could well be on my dream list, but are just too big for my cramped listening space, as well as being a but too expensive.

Quote (selected)
As for studio monitors - be careful. They can have a signature that causes hearing fatigue. Also some monitors have a bad tendency to sound good only when playing really loud.
Difficult. Especially where extended audition/trial is just not possible

Quote from: Moodyz
If I ever wanted to get serious with a speaker setup, I'd get a pair of ATC near/mid-field active monitors, a decent DAC/preamp/monitor-controller, some Mogamis, a decent bespoke meter-bridge/desk (to route all cabling cos I hate clutter) and call it a day.  The few production/mastering/mixing studios I've visited seriously shat all over most of the ultra-fi audiophile showrooms I've been to.
Yes, I think I could live with that too. The best sound I ever heard was in a TV studio --- and it was just background music, for guys setting up the scenery, coming from just one speaker. Mind you, the acoustics probably had as much to do with it as the source of the sound, and I would guess that those studios you visited were very well treated?

Many of the Gearslutz people recommend to not even think about the speaker budget until the treatment budget is spent. Something I'd love to do, if I ever have a listening room. For some reason it is anathema to some  audiophiles who don't believe in anything other than boxes, cables and ears.
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DaveBSC

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Re: How should I "evaluate" speakers?
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2014, 08:44:34 PM »

Many of the Gearslutz people recommend to not even think about the speaker budget until the treatment budget is spent. Something I'd love to do, if I ever have a listening room. For some reason it is anathema to some  audiophiles who don't believe in anything other than boxes, cables and ears.

I don't know that I'd go that far, but anybody looking to spend over $1500/pr on speakers should seriously consider at least some basic treatment options, and measure their space to get an idea of where they are starting from. Uber high-end gear in a room full of slap and flutter echo and bass modes is a giant bag of fail.
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