Topic: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please! (Read 8915 times)

Elysian · « **on:** July 02, 2014, 06:57:30 PM »

I'd like to enter the world of speakers, but have absolutely no idea what I'm doing so I'm hoping to draw upon the collective hive mind wisdom of the-forum-that-shall-not-be-named-at-HF.

I don't have a lot of space to setup speakers, so any speakers that require a large room (like how the Emerald Physics CS2 need to be placed at least 5 feet away from a wall) probably isn't a good idea for me. I haven't heard a lot of speakers, but I've heard a pair of Duntech Sovereigns (through an old Mark Levinson amp) which has been my dream system for perfect sounding audio.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how where I should start looking? I liked the Mini Maggies though they didn't have much feeling of substance. I heard some Dynaudio speakers with a great vinyl rig and they were nice with classical, but I listen to a lot of EDM, pop, rock, and metal, so I have a hunch those might not do so well.

My budget for a speaker rig is between $5-10k, and have a slight preference to buy used. Form factor is also very important, so something like 350lb Sovereigns are a no-go for me

In terms of amping, I have a First Watt J2 (and Placette Active preamp) I'm not sure what to do with--all the advice seems to be choose the speaker you like first, then amp for it. I'm on the order list for the Levi so I can use that one too, or I'm happy to pick up a used Class A amp or a some good Class D amps like the W4S ones.

Not sure if my dream of a mini-Sovereign is remotely realistic, but would love any input on speakers to look for, or even other forums and communities to look at. Just read about the DSM-15 which seems popular?

Marvey · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2014, 08:25:52 PM »

Room size? How dedicated can the room be? How far can you place seat and speakers from the wall?
How loud do you need to listen? What are your priorities? Stage? Resolution? Dynamics? Even / smooth FR? Precision? Bass extension and power?

DaveBSC · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2014, 08:47:52 PM »

Quote from: Elysian on July 02, 2014, 06:57:30 PM

I don't have a lot of space to setup speakers

My budget for a speaker rig is between $5-10k, and have a slight preference to buy used. Form factor is also very important, so something like 350lb Sovereigns are a no-go for me

I'm happy to pick up a used Class A amp or a some good Class D amps like the W4S ones.

Not sure if my dream of a mini-Sovereign is remotely realistic, but would love any input on speakers to look for, or even other forums and communities to look at. Just read about the DSM-15 which seems popular?

Exactly how much space are we talking here? Is the room a box that you can do with whatever you wish, or is this a living room or similar environment with a lot of constraints about what can be placed where?

Class A and Class D are VERY different from each other. Unless you're talking big money, or amps that slide into A/B after the first 10 watts or so, you're going to need to look at a certain class of speakers if you want to stick with Class A.

Class D amps OTOH can bring nearly unlimited power in a tiny box, but to my ears the tradeoffs are not worth it... not unless you're talking Ncore, which is also big money. UcD is ok-ish, but I prefer pretty much any well designed A/B amp. ICEpower as used by W4S - no.

Are you talking $5-10K for the speakers, or $5-10K for the rig? Either way, you can get VERY good results, I just need to know what exactly you want to do, and what you're working with.

Elysian · « **Reply #3 on:** July 03, 2014, 09:57:13 AM »

Responding to the questions:

Room size? 12' x 12'

How dedicated can the room be? Moderately. I can move around furniture to make space as needed, but it's just a standard room that isn't dedicated for really good audio reproduction.

How far can you place seat and speakers from the wall? Probably up to 2' (3' max) without things getting really unwieldy. The closer the speakers can be to the wall, the better, but not absolutely necessary.

How loud do you need to listen? Quiet to moderate. I don't listen to music loudly and the people around me don't want to hear my music. Can't use a subwoofer for this reason, either, as the walls and floors are thin.

What are your priorities? Stage? Resolution? Dynamics? Even / smooth FR? Precision? Bass extension and power? Prefer neutral tonal character leaning towards the darker side. Slight warmth over coldness or sharpness. Good articulation in the lower frequencies. Realism is more important than resolution or transparency for me. Marginally recessed treble is okay. Natural and neutral midrange. Extended and deep bass. Viscerality would be great but guessing it might be a no-go given my restrictions. Deep soundstage would be ideal but understand if this isn't possible.

Thought the ICEpower by W4S was okay but in general I prefer Class A amps too from a pure transparency perspective. $10k max for the entire rig. Of course would prefer to stay closer to the $5k range but if going higher opens up noticeably better options, I'm all for it. Open to any amping suggestions. Again the Duntech Sovereigns are my favorite speakers I've ever heard, so if there is anything realistic for a mini/junior rig, would love a decent facsimile.

Hroðulf · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2014, 10:45:48 AM »

Be careful to not excite any midbass room modes. That room isn't too big.

OJneg · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2014, 03:09:08 PM »

I'm thinking a good pair of 2-way monitors (on stands) is what you need. KEF LS50 might be up your alley, but it's not going to give you deep extended bass or a sound that's "visceral". Many other options of course.

Marvey · « **Reply #6 on:** July 03, 2014, 04:05:44 PM »

Ditto on monitors on stands designed to to used a few feet off the walls.

Skip 6" woofers. Won't get deep or quality bass. Only way to get bass that suites your requirements for quality and extension is 8" or even better 10" if you can find something compact enough. Big woofers are needed for quality bass. I've found that bigger woofers can still provide a visceral experience even at low volumes. 6" woofers will sound like mush in the bass.

You'll probably want 90db efficiency or greater for Class A / low power amps. This probably rules out metal cone drivers and the complex x-overs which come with them. Unless you have a Class A 500W watt.

There's two I have in mind, but it's driving me nuts. Can't think of the names.

Marvey · « **Reply #7 on:** July 03, 2014, 04:38:55 PM »

ATC SCM40

Floorstanding three way, 6.5" bass driver is on small side, but dedicated to bass since there is a dedicated midrange. They are smaller than they look in Internet pix and will actually work in your small room.
With ATCs, what you want is their midrange dome driver. Midrange to die for! Those a super super speshal and I before I die, I would like to make a speaker with one of those. They are over $1K a pop. Again, you want the midrange driver. If you ask me about the ATCs without that midrange driver, I will say that you want the midrange driver.
85db efficiency is quite poor, but with 30 watts, you should be fine in the small room you described.
SCM40 is very neutral though. Placing them against or close to a wall should provide some warmth. You might be able to put a resistor across one of the terminals to decrease mid/treble.
Careful choice of source and amp required. Recommend ladder or similar sounding DAC.
Room treatments definitely necessary. Lay on the thick rugs. Diffusors, absorbers, etc.
Call or e-mail ATC. Tell them about your room, your situation, your concerns about wanting a darker sound. They actually help you.

anetode · « **Reply #8 on:** July 03, 2014, 05:20:53 PM »

Quote from: Elysian on July 02, 2014, 06:57:30 PM

I'd like to enter the world of speakers, but have absolutely no idea what I'm doing so I'm hoping to draw upon the collective hive mind wisdom of the-forum-that-shall-not-be-named-at-HF.
...
My budget for a speaker rig is between $5-10k, and have a slight preference to buy used. Form factor is also very important, so something like 350lb Sovereigns are a no-go for me

I'm planning a similar purchase later this year and so I will be keeping a close eye on this thread. Among the speakers I've been looking at so far some of the frontrunners include the Revel F208s, which have been getting good reviews and don't completely dominate the room's landscape; the Quad ESL-28/2912, just to try it out; and the recently announced KEF reference series that pairs a new revision of their coax mid/tweeter with a modest array of small woofers for an immodest sum.

The maggies are an enigma - it would be fun to take advantage of the 30 day trial offer/

Hroðulf · « **Reply #9 on:** July 03, 2014, 05:30:04 PM »

Something like this would be extra neat -

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ScanSpeak-3W-Discovery.htm

Author Topic: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please! (Read 8915 times)

Elysian

Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

Marvey

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

DaveBSC

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

Elysian

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

Hroðulf

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

OJneg

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

Marvey

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

Marvey

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

anetode

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

Hroðulf

Re: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please!

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Author Topic: Getting Into Speakers, Help Please! (Read 8915 times)