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Author Topic: Getting a dedicated line for gear?  (Read 3211 times)

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ohhgourami

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Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« on: June 13, 2014, 08:15:02 AM »

Hey guys,

I've been noticing that during certain hours of the day my PC's PSU and audio through my amp would start to buzz. Maybe it's my new power amp causing this because it can pull more power or it's just more sensitive, but PC PSU buzz and buzz into headphone amp seem to go together (even with DAC and pre turned off). I notice it when I run my AC during the late afternoon or if I leave my PC on for long hours at a time. These hours tend to be in the late mornings and in the late afternoon. The problem seems to magically disappear once it gets to 7PM or so.

All my gear is currently plugged into one 15A line and I'm wondering if anyone has gotten good results with installing dedicated 20A lines for their gear. How much did it cost?

I think it would be pretty easy to install as my room is right above the fuse box on the same wall.
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The Alchemist

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2014, 09:57:20 AM »

DO you use a USB connection from your PC to a DAC then an amp or just use your PC's soundcard to your amp?
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Solderdude

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2014, 10:17:25 AM »

Depending on where you live and how the local energy distributer operates it is possible you are hearing control signals that are sent over mains.
These are usually in the audible range (between 200Hz and 1kHz) and  can take several seconds and repeat itself.
It should be noted that these are tones that may last several seconds are not constant.

These 'signals' are common mode meaning the signals should be present on both the L and N line referenced to ground.
Depending on filtering used or transformers/leakage currents some 'imbalance' may occur which causes these control tones to become audible.
Control signals can be for switching to daylight/nighttime meters, streetlighting or other 'automatic' things in your region.

This is what may be troubling you but most likely it may be the issue below.

Hum on transformers may also be caused by a small DC offset between Live and Neutral which could be caused by a number of reasons and may well 'improve' in the nighttime.
In this case you can use a simple circuit to remove that DC such as:
http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=316
or
http://sjostromaudio.com/pages/index.php/hifi-projects/109-dct02-the-dc-trap-high-end-style#.U5rPknaP2Qo
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Mr.Sneis

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 06:13:04 PM »

I actually have a ton of experience in this matter as a consumer of audio components (not an engineer or electrician).

My tips for you are as follows:

The cost to install that dedicated breaker will at worst cost you a few hundred dollars which is a drop in the bucket compared to the "power regenerators" or related gear out there.  So it's a low-risk call BUT I wouldn't have high expectations of it either solving your humming issues nor any sonic gain.  Common sense would say that the breaker simply gets fed from the same pipeline as your existing breaker so don't expect miracles.

Another low-risk idea would be to get the "grounding" for your house checked out or a new/dedicated ground made for the room.  I never did this but came pretty close to.

The other parts of this are all psychological.  I've plowed through amps, DACs, computer gear, video cards, motherboards etc. like water over the years and let me tell you it will drive you nuts trying to make sure everything is quiet.  So when I say psychological there is a threshold where you have to realize the juice is not worth the squeeze for time/money/effort/stress spent that you have to wrestle with.

Computers will have coil whine, it's a reality that has only gotten worse with modern manufacturing.  Something between the Video Cards, PSU, and Motherboards just isn't up to snuff.  Then you get to USB and it all becomes a mess.  I hope the new Schiit Wyrd is a solution to possible USB line noise from a PC, at least it's affordable.

Audio components that have transformers toroidal or traditional can also hum in "regular operation."  My ECBA does it more than any of my other current gears but one of my old Headamp built KGSS' also did it too.  I fought with Craig over it for a while and he said there was nothing wrong and it cost me time and money dealing with it.  In the end I just accept it as it's probably just an OCD thing for me and I experimented with adding a bunch of rubber washers etc and it barely made any difference.  Also tried the isolation transformers route and believe it or not those hummed louder than the BA.

I tried the power regenerator stuff briefly and felt it was a poor investment; what gear is out there is not cheap for the quality stuff and the resale value sucks and the components can be physically really big and heavy so if you have space/rack limitations something to keep in mind.

Another tip is to bring the gear to a friend's/relateives/work and try it there.  See if it does the same thing which it probably will.
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ohhgourami

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2014, 10:35:23 PM »

I was thinking about how the breaker gets fed by the same common line, but it would be nice to separate my PC and audio gear. USB does not affect the hum as I still hear it when my DAC is turned off.

Usually everything is almost completely inaudible.
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Greed

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2014, 07:47:39 PM »

I actually have a ton of experience in this matter as a consumer of audio components (not an engineer or electrician).

My tips for you are as follows:

The cost to install that dedicated breaker will at worst cost you a few hundred dollars which is a drop in the bucket compared to the "power regenerators" or related gear out there.  So it's a low-risk call BUT I wouldn't have high expectations of it either solving your humming issues nor any sonic gain.  Common sense would say that the breaker simply gets fed from the same pipeline as your existing breaker so don't expect miracles.

Another low-risk idea would be to get the "grounding" for your house checked out or a new/dedicated ground made for the room.  I never did this but came pretty close to.

The other parts of this are all psychological.  I've plowed through amps, DACs, computer gear, video cards, motherboards etc. like water over the years and let me tell you it will drive you nuts trying to make sure everything is quiet.  So when I say psychological there is a threshold where you have to realize the juice is not worth the squeeze for time/money/effort/stress spent that you have to wrestle with.

Computers will have coil whine, it's a reality that has only gotten worse with modern manufacturing.  Something between the Video Cards, PSU, and Motherboards just isn't up to snuff.  Then you get to USB and it all becomes a mess.  I hope the new Schiit Wyrd is a solution to possible USB line noise from a PC, at least it's affordable.

Audio components that have transformers toroidal or traditional can also hum in "regular operation."  My ECBA does it more than any of my other current gears but one of my old Headamp built KGSS' also did it too.  I fought with Craig over it for a while and he said there was nothing wrong and it cost me time and money dealing with it.  In the end I just accept it as it's probably just an OCD thing for me and I experimented with adding a bunch of rubber washers etc and it barely made any difference.  Also tried the isolation transformers route and believe it or not those hummed louder than the BA.

I tried the power regenerator stuff briefly and felt it was a poor investment; what gear is out there is not cheap for the quality stuff and the resale value sucks and the components can be physically really big and heavy so if you have space/rack limitations something to keep in mind.

Another tip is to bring the gear to a friend's/relateives/work and try it there.  See if it does the same thing which it probably will.


What am I missing here? This thread has again peaked my interest about dedicated lines, but after researching it seems like the cost would be way higher than something like a PS Audio P3. The physical breaker may cost only a few hundred but what about materials etc. to wire that breaker to your audio room? I would love to put in dedicated power and ground lines for my audio gear but I just don't understand how this is suppose to be easy?
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Mr.Sneis

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2014, 03:20:30 AM »

My guy installed a new line, outlet, and breaker.  It cost under $200.  Wire is not that expensive unless you go fancy pantsy, the breaker is like $10-15, outlet is a few bucks...

A p3 is what $2000?

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Greed

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2014, 04:55:00 AM »

My guy installed a new line, outlet, and breaker.  It cost under $200.  Wire is not that expensive unless you go fancy pantsy, the breaker is like $10-15, outlet is a few bucks...

A p3 is what $2000?


Those are just the electrical components needed, were your friend's walls bare? I'm talking about dry-wall, paint, etc. That is why I'm saying, I must be missing something because in Cali, in a already standing house... it would be atleast $2K, probably more.

Yea, the P3 is $2K or so.
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ohhgourami

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2014, 06:35:34 AM »

From asking around a bit more, it seems to be well below $1k to get a dedicated line.

I think my street just has dirty power at peak hours when everyone has their ACs running. I better go solar and bypass the transformers all together :p
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Armaegis

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Re: Getting a dedicated line for gear?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2014, 07:06:10 AM »

I think my street just has dirty power at peak hours when everyone has their ACs running. I better go solar and bypass the transformers all together :p

Will you expect the difference to be... night and day?





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