Marv what about just adding affiliate links on your site like Ken Rockwell does? Link to Amazon, B&H, Adorama, Newegg, all the big online electronics retailers.
I buy a ton online and don't use any affiliate links, but I would definitely use it for Changstar. I think you get 1-5% on each sale depending on category. That's a huge amount of money and I think most people here would do it in a heartbeat. You do this and you are beholden to nobody. You'd have a hell of a lot more than $3000.
I guess I could. I'm sure you've seen a few of them around in certain posts of mine where I might add a dong from Amazon. I just hate doing stuff like that. You know how I am. I'm a dumb-ass in terms on monetizing stuff. I'd prefer to measure a DAC than figure out how to do stuff like that.
It's probable that something like vBulletin might be able to integrate Amazon Affiliate ads into the new forum like how HF does it.
Do you need help doing it? The sites all have affiliate programs because they want more customers and referrals. Once you set up the account all you do is put the link on the front page or make it a banner on every page. Im sure Zero or Ultra could do it in 5 minutes.
I probably won't donate because Im a cheap motherfucker. But If Im buying from Amazon, my price is the same, and I would rather 5% go towards Changstar. I think most people think like me, seriously. I spent over 30K on amazon last year, and Im just one person. You have thousands of members here.
I predict if you just put up affiliate links for Amazon, newegg, adorama and B&H you'd have your money for operating costs plus a ton of money to buy gear to review, more testing equipment, whatever. Ken Rockwell makes most of his living off of affiliate links because I doubt anyone donates to him, but tons of people click on his links. He bought some Mercedes SUV with that affiliate link money.
Also Im not in the market for the strap-on dong, the affiliate link is NOT product specific. It's ANY sales after you click on it. Most members would just book mark the link when they go shopping so you get all the referrals.
I count at least 30 - 50 regulars. Each of them should pay around $50 - $100 and then we'll reach our goal.
@knerian
I am already looking into and researching the Amazon Affiliate program, I do not think it will be a problem to add your suggestion, I think it is a great idea.
I've been seriously pushing him to optimize ads, take sponsorship $$, or SOMETHING for longer than I can remember. I'm really, really glad this is happening. Marv is basically anti-monetization. I don't know wtf happened early in life, but homeboy hates asking anyone to pay for anything or to try to make money off something like this. Hell, he dislikes the thought of Chang even paying for itself. Meanwhile he's loaned gear (and even money when things were super tight) to tons of us here, given us deals, and really just been an incredibly giving human being.
I know a lot of you see him as this crazy talking head who runs Changstar and drops forth the gospel on DACs and other audio gear, but he's one of the most down to earth, wonderfully unassuming people I have had the pleasure of calling a friend.
Thanks to everyone in advance. There's a part of me who would like to thank every one individually, but that would take a lot of time. You guys have to understand that it's very difficult for me to ask you guys to do this. Ravi (zerodeefex) was the one who convinced me that this approach would be acceptable. I'm not the kind of person who likes to take from others.I'm the same way. I have a hard time with this myself.
I've been seriously pushing him to optimize ads, take sponsorship $$, or SOMETHING for longer than I can remember. I'm really, really glad this is happening. Marv is basically anti-monetization. I don't know wtf happened early in life, but homeboy hates asking anyone to pay for anything or to try to make money off something like this. Hell, he dislikes the thought of Chang even paying for itself. Meanwhile he's loaned gear (and even money when things were super tight) to tons of us here, given us deals, and really just been an incredibly giving human being.I've only known Merv for a little bit but I couldn't agree more. We're lucky to have him as the great Messiah.
I know a lot of you see him as this crazy talking head who runs Changstar and drops forth the gospel on DACs and other audio gear, but he's one of the most down to earth, wonderfully unassuming people I have had the pleasure of calling a friend.
Or maybe sock the excess away for keeping the site running in longer term.My Vote, backed with dollars.
CS as we knew it will disappear... More growth, more noise , less signal , more $$$ needed to fund bandwidth for noise , more moderators to calm down rants between people who don't know themselves IRL ... Usual BS.
I don't know wtf happened early in life, but homeboy hates asking anyone to pay for anything or to try to make money off something like this. Hell, he dislikes the thought of Chang even paying for itself. Meanwhile he's loaned gear (and even money when things were super tight) to tons of us here, given us deals, and really just been an incredibly giving human being.
Good work Marvey and everybody on here.
my 2 cents...
Links to Amazon etc. YES!!!
Adsense- NNNNOOOO!!!!
"what are you doing for your changstar?" or something like that
I also want to break down measurement sections. At this time, I only want Hands and my measurements to be sanctioned. (Additional people can also be approved upon meeting certain standards.) Other people can post their measurements, but they will go into a unsanctioned measurement sub-forum, i.e. "random measurements by random" people.
If I ever make money like Ken Rockwell, I'll give out a few EC amps to randomly selected people, before I buy myself a car.
your probably right nevermind.
I would volunteer to make the artwork, but it would probably scare people away.
Wow, goal reached this quickly? That is quick.
Wow, goal reached this quickly? That is quick.
My family dining place tonight.
No joke.
:)p2
I'm in. Let's try to hit $4000 if we can. Go Pyrates! :money:
Very cool of Jason Stoddard / Schiit
I'm about to donate (a very little) something as well (have to find a working card first), but here's my concept for a continuous financing system.
On Anaxilus:
1) He promises to be a good boy
2) He won't be a moderator
3) TheGame will moderate him - just flag his posts
Yeah, I hope it is not seen as trying to "buy" favor. I'd intended to donate anonymously, but I was probably still a little loopy this morning (I am down with pneumonia right now, lovely). In hindsight, I think it's the right thing to do, though. Better to have it out in the open.
Honestly, this is the easiest thing I can do to give back. Marv (and crew) have always given us honest feedback, and that has made us a better company. If I can help Marv get infrastructure/test gear/etc and improve his site, then that's a great way to give back.
So the cute flesh eating rabbit can be cuddled? Okay.
On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.Ha.
We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.
On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.
We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.
I'm probably on that list and I'll cool it and work with TheGame as needed. Glad to be here, looking forward to what's next :wheel:
Off-topic is a good idea (I want to re-start a science sub-forum), but people will troll to try to finish grudges (no names, but I've had it happen), so better if rules are universal and apply to everyone except takato-that boy can go nuts.
On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.
We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.
Yeah this is not science. THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.I would have to insist, no science sub-forum Marv.
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.
On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.
We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.
TheGame loves Pluto.
I like this better:With what current mods? Please be specific. Or I might go off! :)p13
(http://en-us.sennheiser.com/images/718/all/square/5563/square_louped_hd_800_01_sq_high_end_sennheiser.png)
(http://en-us.sennheiser.com/images/718/all/square/5563/square_louped_hd_800_01_sq_high_end_sennheiser.png)
With what current mods? Please be specific.
Ha.
The Bengals website I admin has a trash talk forum with an enter at your own risk warning. I stay out of that one...
Truth be told, it's not that effective. People still go at it in the main forums, and have to be "handled". The trash talk forum goes largely unused.
We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.
So TheGame will moderate...The Game?
More important by far, it seems to me, is a light hand in moderation allowing free flowing dialog.
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.
My personal opinion :
But I'm a fascist
Fine. I'll have to establish the First Objectivist Church of Pretentious Wankery elsewhere then :'(
Shouldn't be a problem, it appears to be franchiseable. I'm sure there's somewhere with a low growth rate and poor street lighting that will accommodate. ;D
Fine. I'll have to establish the First Objectivist Church of Pretentious Wankery elsewhere then :'(
I changed my mind. We will have the "Internet Dueling and Sound Science" sub-forum. TheGame has declined to moderate that sub-forum, so it will go un-moderated. I myself will not be able to see that sub-forum's contents.
I changed my mind. We will have the "Internet Dueling and Sound Science" sub-forum. TheGame has declined to moderate that sub-forum, so it will go un-moderated. I myself will not be able to see that sub-forum's contents.
Can't wait! It'll be like SeaWorld Japan!! :)p3Wait I thought that happened in Colorado?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGepBtBCuTY
I changed my mind. We will have the "Internet Dueling and Sound Science" sub-forum. TheGame has declined to moderate that sub-forum, so it will go un-moderated. I myself will not be able to see that sub-forum's contents.
I volunteer to moderate and will delete all the rational posts, leaving only the best drivel to ferment and fester.
Marv, I hope you will reconsider not migrating. Those who come after will not have the context to understand how all this started. Or why. Yes, we have baggage, but it is part of who we are as a community. That and I am wearing "the shirt" from Wikia to the grocery store. I had to explain what it meant. Then I rapidly left. Isn't that worth something?
Perhaps "Unsound Science and Mind" would be more appropriate.Yeah, I'm not going to a "sound science" forum.
Marv, I hope you will reconsider not migrating. Those who come after will not have the context to understand how all this started. Or why. Yes, we have baggage, but it is part of who we are as a community.
Is it possible to archive what's available here permanently in some shape or form? It doesn't have to be migrated to a new system as long as it could be preserved, right? And later on for new topics they can reference this archived material.
Gutting it and saving a static copy sounds like a good solution.
The light hand will continue, but I feel a formal moderation process will be more needed with the influx of new members. I want to be prepared. I also don't want to be in a situation where I have to make judgement calls against certain people. People write me PMs all day on why I let certain people do this or that - and this is something I don't have time to deal with - especially when they don't listen to my advice of "just walk away".Late post but whoa, thanks for mentioning me. It honestly means a lot.
Really, only a handful of people have caused me headaches recently, and it would be nice for me to be able to offload the responsibility of breaking up arguments and diffusing anger. Also, I've seen TheGame's moderation at work, and he is very very good. His performance is an A. In contrast, Currawong's moderation ranges from a D to F-, although I am sure is his hands are tied because he has to follow orders from his master.
Also, when the new forum starts, I am sure the habitual troublemakers who have already been banned from other forums will try to sneak their way in.
What's more important is keeping up with good content and leading the discussion. People like Hands, Ultrabike, Atomicbob will be able to help do this on the measurement end. Anaxilus, TheGunner, Clemmaster, Keanex, OJ, Nergura, Audiofrk, Bill-P (the list is really too long) will be able to fill us in on the subjective side of things. We have a lot of "discussion leaders"... all based on merit, not number of posts.
I agree. Can't lose all that data there has to be a way to preserve what is important. I know from other forums I have participated in that most of the time the old forums stay up for say a week then it's up to the users to add all the information onto the new forums.
Nothing will be lost, just that old content will be on the old server.
The idea is to run keep a copy of this current website running on a lower performance server that I will run from a home business class Internet connection. The legacy content can be running on the same SMF forum software or served via web server from a static copy extracted from here. There are +/-'s associated with each method and I will be consulting someone on the best approach.
Nothing will be lost, just that old content will be on the old server.
Also, some old content will be slowly migrated. The measurements will definitely be moved over for the sake of completeness. Good quality popular content will be rewritten into a digest format and also moved over.
Thad, I've always believed that irreverential genuineness is the bedrock of CS in whatever avatar. Now that I write this, I must stop saying thank you after every question I ask :P
The transition will be a bit tricky, but I'm sure everything will return to normal. (What's normal here).
What are the seven pieces of nine?
I've got a name for the site already which emphasizes the positive aspects of CS and what I found the most rewarding.
I just caught up on the Shoutbox stuff from last night. I am horrified. That's all I will say.
BTW, putting people on "block" also blocks Shoutbox content.
I have been spending my time with family, work, EC, and getting the new site up and running. Not enough hours in the day. Some personal stuff going on too. Sorry, it's taking longer than I expected.
One less than eight pieces of eight.
SimpleMachines is extremely speedy and well organized, and the search function is simply unmatched. Huddler, vBulletin, phpBB, none of them can compare in speed and consistency.
Why fix what isn't broken?
Maybe little things have been breaking behind the scenes and I've been spending too much time fixing them...... that's called website administration, if you try and make things "perfect" to keep things from going wrong you're just going to be repeatedly disappointed
... that's called website administration, if you try and make things "perfect" to keep things from going wrong you're just going to be repeatedly disappointed
one of the first things my teacher told us ... blah blah blah blah blah
Maybe you should try running your own web forum with similar levels of activity, crazy members who cause a flood of "WTF / Defcon 3" PMs and text messages to you, work one real job, and one hobby job (seriously), while taking care of / spending time with wife and kids.
Everyone has a personal force field here:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2727.0.html
The Ignore function also works in the Shoutbox.
Everyone has a personal force field here:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2727.0.html
The Ignore function also works in the Shoutbox.
Oh, I know. I really don't want it to come to that. But it might.
In any case, I don't see why it should become your problem.
Are you surprised there are certain people that can't follow directions or handle their own issues that feel a need to appeal to someone else for their own appeasement?
Test drove vB5 Cloud. It sucks. Xenforo seems promising.
Also, this thread has to more prominent, cause this is about long term existence.
FYI. I plan on making donation expenditures available to respected members of high rank and up.
I am also not ashamed to say that I will be giving TheGame a nice gift for his moderation services and Hans / Ultrabike some higher quality measuring equipment so they can measure DAC / amps (per posting and measurement standards currently being developed to avoid the "stream of consciousness" effect.)
When we get past what we need to survive for 15 months, the rest will be allocated to headphones or gear of interest to be decided by the community. The gear will be measured and put on a loaner program for a certain period of time. After this, we'll find a fair way to give it away to a member of the community within the bounds of the law.
I will eventually solicit advice on monetizing ads and affiliate programs so the site will pay for itself after 15 months. If I ever make Ken Rockwell money on the ads, I'll throw out a few bones and get a Camaro SS or Mustang GT350 for myself (there are many better cars, but I would like to have an American muscle car again). After the car, I will give back to the community and maybe some charitable causes.
P.S.
Thank you again. I am stunned at the level of support. I really had no idea. The name of the new forum will reflect how I truly feel about this special community.
Also, don't feel bad if you cannot give. I understand that not everyone is in a situation where they can afford to do so. Send positive vibes instead of money. Or show understanding or generosity to the guy in the wheelchair who sneered at you for opening the door for him.
I will eventually solicit advice on monetizing ads and affiliate programs so the site will pay for itself after 15 months. If I ever make Ken Rockwell money on the ads, I'll throw out a few bones and get a Camaro SS or Mustang GT350 for myself (there are many better cars, but I would like to have an American muscle car again). After the car, I will give back to the community and maybe some charitable causes.
I love the shopped looks of shock and disgust on everyone's faces :gross:
Hello CHANGSTAR Members and guests! I would like to discuss further about the Future of CHANGSTAR. Firstly, I would like to thank every single person here for making CHANGSTAR a premier site for Audiophiles and Audio enthusiasts, we have an extraordinary community of knowledgeable, friendly, and overall outstanding individuals.
That being said, to continue this tradition on the new site, I will be keeping a very close and watchful eye toward unnecessary or demeaning behavior towards other members and guests. This is not a punishment, nor is it a "Big Brother is watching" scenario - it is simply to make sure each member and guest is happy, and feels safe and an important part of the community.
Marv is not excluded from this. He is not above my Moderation and the same rules apply to him as well, this is what he wants and it is my job to do so.
Keep in mind, everyone is entitled to their opinion(s) and have the right to express their opinions as long as it is not insulting, demeaning, threatening, or any type of harassment. This type of behavior will not be tolerated. That being said, we are very lucky to have the great community we have, and we do have very few issues with members or guests exhibiting this type of behavior. However, sometimes people can lose their tempers, or take something personal and things can get out of hand. This is not what our community is about. It is about exchanging ideas, opinions, and facts, and to me personally the most important thing, making friends and seeing both sides of a story.
Let it be clear that we still want to be edgy, as long as it does not go too far. I was given this responsibility and privilege to help keep peace and to make sure that every member and guest feels happy, safe, and free to express their opinions related to a topic or thread without fear of retaliation from another member or guest.
This community is about audio, learning audio, friends, and fun. Again I am not the community's police officer, or Big Brother, my main purpose is to help, and I take pleasure in doing so. As I have stated before, if you have issues with another member or guest, please let me know and I will get it resolved in the most peaceful manner possible while looking at both sides of the story. There are individuals who trust my judgement, and I hope the rest of you will come to feel the same way.
On the new site, some terms will no longer be acceptable. Any racial remarks, demeaning remarks, insults, or harassment is absolutely unacceptable. Again, this is not punishment, this is in the spirit of keeping the site a friendly, safe, and fun place to be.
That being said, it is absolutely paramount that members and guests feel free to post their thoughts (provided they are not objectiveness trolls, or individuals who post hateful things towards our site or our members and guests).
I care about this site's and the new site's members and guests above all else - and I feel that every member and guest should feel safe, happy, and have fun, and not to worry about everything one says, I just ask each individual to be respectful towards others and to please respect the Rules and Guidelines of OUR new site.
~TheGame
Anyway, the main point of all of this is to Rabbit's point. We do not want members and guests to feel intimidated to speak their minds in fear of being ridiculed or talked down to. Certain comments may have been slipped through in the past that perhaps made some people a little uncomfortable or not feel welcomed. We do not want this to be the case. We want everyone to feel safe, speak their minds, have their opinions and thoughts, without the thought of being attacked jokingly, or seriously.
I can honestly say I personally have no idea what was going on in the shoutbox last night, as Moderator, I do not have the permissions to do certain things like that no do I have the permission to silence or censor anyone in that manner in the shoutbox - I honestly still don't know who did it. I think it was meant as a joke honestly, but I think it may have been taken the wrong way. I honestly do not know what it happened, or who did it - and I did try to find out but I do not have those types of permissions.
Anyway, the main point of all of this is to Rabbit's point. We do not want members and guests to feel intimidated to speak their minds in fear of being ridiculed or talked down to. Certain comments may have been slipped through in the past that perhaps made some people a little uncomfortable or not feel welcomed. We do not want this to be the case. We want everyone to feel safe, speak their minds, have their opinions and thoughts, without the thought of being attacked jokingly, or seriously.
Like I said, I do not know what happened with Anax last night, I thought we were hacked as another member mentioned in a post - I was unable to connect to changstar for around 4 minutes -I kept getting a "server error" message.
But if it was not a hacker, then if the person who was able to do that (which I didn't even know could be done) wants to say anything, they will.
Like "TheGame" shouldn't you refer to yourself as "TheModerator" since it appears you are the one and only. Where is the check and balance of how and what you moderate?
You have a point shipsupt. I am currently the only Moderator - but there are admins that have more permissions and power than me. Before I do anything at all, I always consult them first. As far as how and what I Moderate - are things I feel that maybe out of control, a personal or degrading attack on another member or guest, or something totally inappropriate. And it has to be something I believe the CHANGSTAR community as a whole would agree with. But like I said, if something major does happen (which is rare, I believe the vast majority of Members are awesome people), I always consult an admin before I take any action unless it apparently blatant, which I have not seen personally yet.
I understand what your saying and it is very difficult for me to answer your questions properly, the admins with more authority will make things more clear once we get things going. I apologize if my response isn't what you are specifically asking or if I am not answering correctly, or misunderstanding your question - I am trying to answer you the best I can. The best thing to do as far as where CHANGSTAR goes from here is to hear it from those in a higher position than me.
There's too much random explanation here, hard to parse on my phone, but here's a quick and dirty update:
1) someone with server access was screwing around last night and played a joke on a couple of us. This place will have practical jokers and it won't always be me mostly due to time constraints in my life. I spent a long ass time trying to figure it out and ended up demoted for my poking around (probably as a joke, too)
2) discussions about audio and gear will remain heated and you sure as hell will have to defend yourself.
3) Marv mentioned on the phone that he's going to call me "a brown bastard" still. He just mentioned that if it was a racial slur that more than four officers complain about, he wants to keep that crap off the forums. Justin/Knerian's observations about mainlanders are still in.
4)Nothing on this forum has changed without multiple officers' points of view being taken into consideration. Marv takes all the inputs based off the context from a bunch of officers. A lot of the guys who made this place what it is have given input directly or indirectly about why they're not as present as they used to be. Those dudes and dudettes and their opinions have a meaningful impact on the choices Marv is making.
4) TheGame is new and overly verbose/feels too much like he's gotta explain stuff. Jeremy, no need to be so formal :). Don't go all HF on us. You must continue having fun.
P.S. Jeremy, your avatar freaks me out. Couldn't it be blackbeard or something?
1) someone with server access was screwing around last night and played a joke on a couple of us. This place will have practical jokers and it won't always be me mostly due to time constraints in my life. I spent a long ass time trying to figure it out and ended up demoted for my poking around (probably as a joke, too)
Additionally, we're going to launch a formal, dedicated measurements team with Hands and Ultrabike (who IS willing) leading the charge.
So I'm reading more and more posts and it's obvious some of you guys don't get it. I should have left for work a 1/2 hour earlier...I haven't been here very long, but I am really looking forward to the future plans that you have outlined here in regards to things that you'd like to do in the future. I can't find it right now, but the plan on how to use the money, headphone tours, and such all sounded really cool.
This is hard work and requires a lot of dedication. Seriously... some you guys are so worried about the new site turning into HF while I am writing up on measurement standards for headphones, DACs, and amps so Hans, Ultra, and I can produce more consistent, comparable, and better quality measurements? While I am trying to work with TheGame to come up with a moderation style that won't destroy the spirit of this place while keeping the xnors, Jazz Casuals, and PC police out? While I am spending bloody days looking for the right platform that will serve us for the next 5-7 years? Really, just trying to take a more professional approach. A lot of the material here is difficult to approach.
What is wrong with you people?
Maybe I'll just hit the button to refund everyone and say fuck it.
So I'm reading more and more posts and it's obvious some of you guys don't get it. I should have left for work a 1/2 hour earlier...
This is hard work and requires a lot of dedication. Seriously... some you guys are so worried about the new site turning into HF while I am writing up on measurement standards for headphones, DACs, and amps so Hans, Ultra, and I can produce more consistent, comparable, and better quality measurements? While I am trying to work with TheGame to come up with a moderation style that won't destroy the spirit of this place while keeping the xnors, Jazz Casuals, and PC police out? While I am spending bloody days looking for the right platform that will serve us for the next 5-7 years? Really, just trying to take a more professional approach. A lot of the material here is difficult to approach.
What is wrong with you people?
Maybe I'll just hit the button to refund everyone and say fuck it.
It does seem to me that grab-assing and non-PC talk is, in part, the way we speak to each other in real life, and should be just fine in written form. But there is a line...a line not easily felt in the solitude and piece of your dining room table as you type words in a box. It may seem like you're just making a point, but to the other it may feel more like a pointed stick.
Remember:
Any person is about the most beautiful thing in 25 parsecs...not counting the other 9 billion people.
I've never met anyone who isn't incredibly beautiful and fatally flawed.
So, please be careful of throwing little darts with your finger tips. They do hurt, even if you don't feel them.
And- if you are nice in real life but talk on the internet to people like NOBODY that I would hang out with or keep in my life, I think you need to ask yourself if that's the best way to be. There's relaxed hanging out and then there are racial slurs and needless personal attacks that are just bullying and throwing weight around. That's not "persona". That's persona non grata to me.
Some of us have families, friends, jobs...things that we can't or don't want to do without. I am not sure where you base your self-worth, but having good ears does not give you a pass to be an ass. You may think that you have a group of friends that validate you- if nobody says that certain stuff is not acceptable in their life. Before I walk away, I want to speak up. We have all made real connections and built these sites and had great events and huge enjoyment from the gear and the sound. But let's have a place where we can hold bad gear and bad actions accountable. Quirky gear that still has it's pluses along with it's minuses is cool. When your minuses outweigh your pluses by a longshot and you are bad for the site, we should tell you.
So I'm reading more and more posts and it's obvious some of you guys don't get it. I should have left for work a 1/2 hour earlier...
This is hard work and requires a lot of dedication. Seriously... some you guys are so worried about the new site turning into HF while I am writing up on measurement standards for headphones, DACs, and amps so Hans, Ultra, and I can produce more consistent, comparable, and better quality measurements? While I am trying to work with TheGame to come up with a moderation style that won't destroy the spirit of this place while keeping the xnors, Jazz Casuals, and PC police out? While I am spending bloody days looking for the right platform that will serve us for the next 5-7 years? Really, just trying to take a more professional approach. A lot of the material here is difficult to approach.
What is wrong with you people?
Maybe I'll just hit the button to refund everyone and say fuck it.
All hail TheGame, our new Big Brother overlord and master! May he ever keep us in line.
Hands is obviously eager for a good
:spank:
now and then.
RMAF, Saturday, 1PM, right? ;)
OR:
[person y] "Wow, you are so frickin' stupid. Don't you have a logical bone in your body? Go back to school and learn how to think. And while you are at it why don't you fuck yourself with a chainsaw, asshole. In your asshole, in case I wasn't clear. Oh yeah, and because... cuz, HITLER!!"
Some people truly think that the 2nd example is justifiable and part of passionate discussion. It's this inability to distinguish that I think is why change is necessary. Some people don't get it.
I suppose there's something about internet forums that can bring out the worst in us.
All hail TheGame, our new Big Brother overlord and master! May he ever keep us in line.Hands you finally got the TP from TheGame :)p13
Saturday, 1PM, right?
Here's a fairly simple proposal we should consider:
Whilst I and some others enjoy discussing politics, there are clearly members who don't. Maybe we need to place their wishes first. As much as I enjoy hearing what folks here think about the issues of the day, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Head-Fi (and I don't relish comparing us to Head-Fi) has a No Politics rule, and it works. This might require a bit of an adjustment on the part of some of us, but it's worth considering at this juncture.
It means no more posts/shouts like this:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042)
But also no more posts/shouts like this:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957)
Or even this:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577)
Politics-free means you only discuss politics somewhere private. It doesn't mean that some opinions are A-OK but others are silenced.
I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?
Yes, same time as usual Hands ;D
only[/i] discuss politics somewhere private. It doesn't mean that some opinions are A-OK but others are silenced.
I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?
I actually think it's a good idea. This is supposed to be an audio forum. I like how on Steve Hoffman they can talk about the Colbert show and stay on topic about the quality of the show without descending into politics.
Here's a fairly simple proposal we should consider:
Whilst I and some others enjoy discussing politics, there are clearly members who don't. Maybe we need to place their wishes first. As much as I enjoy hearing what folks here think about the issues of the day, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Head-Fi (and I don't relish comparing us to Head-Fi) has a No Politics rule, and it works. This might require a bit of an adjustment on the part of some of us, but it's worth considering at this juncture.
It means no more posts/shouts like this:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042)
But also no more posts/shouts like this:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957)
Or even this:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577)
Politics-free means you only discuss politics somewhere private. It doesn't mean that some opinions are A-OK but others are silenced.
I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?
It really has nothing to do with "silencing" one side of the argument. It's about one side of the argument consistently crossing the line with their rhetoric and creating a negative environment.
Claritas, you've always been great about keeping your cool and I appreciate that even though I personally disagree with a lot of your beliefs. There have been instances where I've felt unfounded insults have been slung towards you by others and, as you say, that's not cool either. Kudos to you for taking things in stride though.
"Banning" political discussion might work. It's likely to creep in anyway. The important responsibility lies on all of us on a personal level. So long as we all maintain a certain level of detachment and respect for each other and the issues at hand, we're golden.
I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?
"I am loving my music with my rigs. I hope we all are or let's help you put together one. I didn't do mine by myself and I thank the ton of people who helped me. I like to think that I added to their lives and helped them in some way too. That's how I go into this."
It really has nothing to do with "silencing" one side of the argument. It's about one side of the argument consistently crossing the line with their rhetoric and creating a negative environment.
One thing we certainly shouldn't tolerate on the new forum is homophobia. If a gay member of the forum decides to get married and makes a public announcement about it, please don't use that as an excuse to grumble.
He will, oh, how he will.
I hope he will play some Bartok, Zappa and Liquid Tension Experiment among others. That would be pleasant.
And yes, hatred should be silenced, either through moderation or the people who express it should be told to fuck off. Just putting it in the TOS that there's no bigotry due to race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., would solve a lot of problems.
It's pretty important that we don't make people who are here for the audio feel unwelcome due to hatred. Hatred politely expressed is still hatred. People often confuse tone for genuine civility.
And yes, hatred should be silenced, either through moderation or the people who express it should be told to fuck off. Just putting it in the TOS that there's no bigotry due to race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., would solve a lot of problems. The political stuff aside from that can get moderated if it flares up too much and it'll cease to be a problem.
I'm proposing a compromise in which both sides walk away from all political discussion. You're insisting that we should be allowed to have only some sorts of political discussions, but other sorts must be censored because they happen to offend you. No Politics is No Politics. Not Kunlun gets to celebrate homosexuality, but Claritas gets told to fuck off for considering homosexuality suboptimal because "Hatred!" That's no compromise at all.
Alternatively, we can have a No Politics rule; and also have a special subforum for politics and the like to discuss any issue so long as everyone keeps it civil. Maybe we can eat our cake and have it too.
How do you define hatred? Labeling certain opinions as "hatred" or "bigotry" in order to silence the people holding those opinions can be a problem.
If a gay member of the forum decides to get married and makes a public announcement about it, please don't use that as an excuse to grumble.
Yeah, but that's kind of the very reason that we label certain hateful and bigoted opinions as they are.Nah, the reason that certain opinions are labeled as such is to repress dissent. It's a tactic people use to avoid arguments that may require them to challenge the conventional wisdom of their social environment.
Nah, the reason that certain opinions are labeled as such is to repress dissent. It's a tactic people use to avoid arguments that may require them to challenge the conventional wisdom of their social environment.
Nah, the reason that certain opinions are labeled as such is to repress dissent. It's a tactic people use to avoid arguments that may require them to challenge the conventional wisdom of their social environment.While there's certainly some truth to this, I find it a bit too simplistic. Even today Finnish nationalists dressed in KKK garb harrassed a bus of immigrants - is it wrong to call this behavior "hatred" or "bigotry"?
Nah, the reason that certain opinions are labeled as such is to repress dissent. It's a tactic people use to avoid arguments that may require them to challenge the conventional wisdom of their social environment.
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12036959_930340837038016_3451113538728304289_n.jpg?oh=c039f8f3aa6470332874c7ab95d89243&oe=56942A0D)
Something like this?
Farting in somebody's face is not good argument
If those arguments are based on hatred and bigotry, then yes. Repressing dissent in that case would mean taking a stance against hatred and bigotry, which is fairly well-reasoned conventional wisdom in every social environment.
The problem I have with this is: who gets to define an opinion as hatred and bigotry? In the current version of US progressive conventional wisdom anyone opposing same sex marriage or illegal immigration is called a hater and a bigot.
In other countries people supporting these policies are labeled as traitors and charged with supporting child abuse.
The problem I have with this is: who gets to define an opinion as hatred and bigotry? In the current version of US progressive conventional wisdom anyone opposing same sex marriage or illegal immigration is called a hater and a bigot.
In other countries people supporting these policies are labeled as traitors and charged with supporting child abuse.
Free speech should be free. The right has the same rights as the left.
What does the issue of same-sex marriage have to do with audio? All of this talk of freedom and liberty and you want to limit freedom, here amongst headphone-enthusiasts? Since you want a definition of hatred, allow me to ask what you mean by liberty? Liberty for whom? It is quite clear that none of this is relevant anyways.
Free speech should be free. The right has the same rights as the left.
What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah you can say whatever you want in your own home. You can say what you want to say on the corner of the street. You can write it in a book and try to get it published. You have the right to do all kinds of shit with your opinions. You do NOT however have the right to express your opinion NO MATTER the setting. For example if you're employed by a company as a flight stewardess, you do NOT have the right to express your opinion about african-americans/jews/mexicans/arabs/whatever being subhuman in front of the passengers during the flight. You do NOT have the right to rant about same-sex marriage. If you do, your employer has EVERY right to sanction or fire you. The same thing applies to an internet forum set up and paid for by a private individual. He puts in the work and money, its his place, he sets the rules. This is a forum for audio conversation. If the owner of the site does not want you to talk about politics he has EVERY right to ban you from his private site. Hell if he wants to run a site where you're only allowed to be supportive of same-sex marriage he's allowed to have it his way. What the fuck do you kind of people not understand about that simple concept? If I let you into my house I have EVERY right to throw you out of my house if I dont like what you're doing, no matter if you have the constitutional right to do it. Hell if I dont like the color of your shoes I have every right to throw you out of my house based on that triviality. This DOES NOT infringe on your right to wear whatever colored shoes you like - just not in every setting.Well no shit Sherlock. You have the right to say whatever you want. If you shout out that Africans are subhuman, you have the legal right to do so. Employers can fire at-will employees instantly for any reason. It's their right by the contract. If Yoel Romero wants to go on some "EAT THE POO POO" rant, you can't stop him. They can turn off the camera, fire him, and remove him from their private property but they can't stop or physically punish him from saying or publishing it . What are the UFC going to do? Cut his tongue out for blasphemy against the liberal creed like Saudi Arabia crucifies Shiite theologians? You can say what you want as he can say what he wants as long he doesn't threaten physical harm or incite others to do so. If the Fertitta brothers and Dana White want him to go for any reason and he's an at-will employee, it's their business.
My god I swear, every single fucking time a company censors an employee for ranting stupid right-wing shit (thats usually what it is, other instances surely exist) all the retards come out of the woodwork screaming 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' - Morons, freedom of speech has nothing to do with it. A few months ago the UFC fighter Yoel Romero won his fight and used his post-fight interview time to rant about gay marriage and JEEEEEEEEEESUS. After that the UFC told him not to do that kind of shit again. They pay his salary, they pay for the airtime, and they want him to represent the company in a certain way. They have EVERY right to instruct him how to behave as an employee on the airtime they have paid for. Masses of right-wingers took the opportunity to air their grievances about 'political correctness' and 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!!!'; issues they didnt understand the first thing about.
Hell if I go into some stinking bar in Bumfuck, Alabama and start ranting about how god is not real, private citizens shouldnt own fucking armories and how Donald Trump may just not be the ideal candidate for president, I would fully expect to be shown the door by some inbred barowner. And he would have every right to set the rules of speech in his private business.
Well this discussion has certainly went way off topic.
Well no shit Sherlock. You have the right to say whatever you want. If you shout out that Africans are subhuman, you have the legal right to do so. Employers can fire at-will employees instantly for any reason. It's their right by the contract. If Yoel Romero wants to go on some "EAT THE POO POO" rant, you can't stop him. They can turn off the camera, fire him, and remove him from their private property but they can't stop or physically punish him from saying or publishing it . What are the UFC going to do? Cut his tongue out for blasphemy against the liberal creed like Saudi Arabia crucifies Shiite theologians? You can say what you want as he can say what he wants as long he doesn't threaten physical harm or incite others to do so. If the Fertitta brothers and Dana White want him to go for any reason and he's an at-will employee, it's their business.
I don't even know what the point of the argument is, or why people are arguing it, nor do I even know how it got here. Seems like a pointless argument, but what do I know?
well, this thread derailed.
Going to talk to Marv and crew about a "no dumbassery" rule for Chang 2.0. That might cause half my posts to be moderated though.
How about "you can joke and make remarks but not in certain places"?
Like, say... the measurement forums, the headphone discussion, etc...
I'm sure dumbassery in the off-topic section is very appropriate and should, in fact, be encouraged.
And you don't see these offensive posts as dumb? You set standards in audio that are not matched in behaviour in that case and we can all say exactly what we like as long as it's not dumb? Who decides what's not dumb?
No moderation is a cop out and weak. People should be able to communicate without the attitude or language shown, but there you are.
And you don't see these offensive posts as dumb? You set standards in audio that are not matched in behaviour in that case and we can all say exactly what we like as long as it's not dumb? Who decides what's not dumb?
No moderation is a cop out and weak. People should be able to communicate without the attitude or language shown, but there you are.
We have developed seven simple guidelines. "No politics" and "Don't be a dumbass" among them.
I don't like being a fascist. This is why they are called guidelines. Rules will always be broken, sometimes for good reason. Ultimately everything goes back to the prime directive: "Try to be nice. Don't be an ass."
To follow up on the above thought, I found it much more troubling that people DID NOT HIT the moderation button when certain people were being aggressive or crapping on each other in non-audio meltdown threads, but INCESSANTLY HIT Mike Moffat's stereotype comment on LGBT with macs. People will have to be responsible for reporting all types of bad behavior on the new site.Ha ha, you were part of some of those meltdowns (me, too!)!!! It's completely cool that you are letting yourself be moderated just like everyone. I think the new site is going to be great.
Yes. It's completely inappropriate, racist, immature, degrading, humiliating, ignominious, antagonistic, ignoble and vile. I think that if one should call something for what it is and by it's proper name: El Le
So i was thinking "shit" would be ok, but perhaps "fuck" would not.
I'm offended that you are offended.
No Marv, "shit" is NOT ok. It's foul. "fuck" is alright.So "this headphone sounds like fucking shit" is in?
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2699594/fish-slapping-o.gif)
So i was thinking "shit" would be ok, but perhaps "fuck" would not.
So "this headphone sounds like fucking shit" is in?
Shitting and fucking are natural bodily functions.
Does Jason/Mike care if we use schitt instead ?
P.S. This is tame by anime standards.
If I insult shitheads, is that general, or specific?
I say chaps, there's way too much vulgarity going on in this thread. I am going to have to lay the law down for some of you young bucks.I hope you are dressed properly for a Sunday sir. And get properly pissed at the pub. :)p5
You are really off kilter and have no regard for the house rules which state that all ties must be pulled up fully and jackets must be fastened by the centre button only, unless sitting down.
Fuck it, I'm off to the pub.
Anax, I miss your posts
hello,
agreed wholeheartedly. however. the politics need to be left behind. just my opinion, YMMV, yada, yada, yada...
Do not expect "Headphone Flowchart" posts from me in the future.
Did you catch a lot of flak for the chinchong thing on the flowchart? I was under the impression that people didn't get ruffled by that.
I never knew or created this term "chinchong." Some of my posts and some conversations I was in were not appreciated. Some topics were the kind of topics some people prefer to avoid. So be it.
I'm hoping for six thousand (double the expected cost).