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Author Topic: Nonsensical audio terms  (Read 19981 times)

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AstralStorm

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #100 on: January 19, 2013, 06:59:12 PM »
Indeed, "speed" is one of those elusive qualities. It is acted upon by frequency balance and harmonic distortion patterns.
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anetode

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2013, 09:47:47 PM »
Quote from: Rabbit on January 19, 2013, 10:16:28 AM

It's interesting to see how you translate those statements as well because that's not exactly how I would translate them. You're kind of taking what is said 'literally' which is not what is meant (I think) when it's written.

...

Interesting in that you are equating the statements mostly to 'physical causes' of the sound and I think of it more in terms of how would you describe the sound.


Those were quick simplifications, I'm not one to deny the effects of tonality  :)p4
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donunus

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2013, 10:10:13 PM »
Quote from: Analixus on January 19, 2013, 06:50:22 PM
It has been said that a strong treble edge gives the impression of greater speed or 'PRaT'.  Hence Grados+rock.

Are speed and PRaT really the same? I tend to associate PRaT with fun factor due to a good combination of speed and coherence which gets my toe tappin. I feel that PRaT is also another subjective thing just like musicality. I understand why Purrin calls them BS terms. They are personal and don't really describe anything in specific detail analytically speaking. I like using those terms though when I am enjoying the music more than listening to flaws.
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rhythmdevils

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2013, 10:44:15 PM »
Quote from: AstralStorm on January 19, 2013, 10:01:51 AM
Quote from: rhythmdevils on January 18, 2013, 10:34:54 PM
I just don't see how soundstage size relates to a concert.  It's just small soundstage.  Or the soundstage is projected behind you. 

There is equipment that really has no appreciable "sound" to it. I wouldn't call it "chameleon", just perceptually flat - the problem is that some people associate flat with "atonal". "Chameleon" feature is usually due to mostly flat signature - slanted is also ok, as long as the slant isn't huge. Meaning no dips/humps.

It seems like you're contradicting yourself here, and possibly missing the point.  And my post about soundstage wasn't referring to "chameleon". 

The point is that the less a pair of headphones impart their own sound, the bigger effect upstream changes have, esp recordings, and the final sound changes more with upstream/recording changes.  Even something like a K701 imparts so much of it's own signature, that no matter what recording you're listening to, the final signal always sounds like a K701.  Nothing against the K701, just an example of something that is pretty good but still has a lot of it's own sound. 
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AstralStorm

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2013, 10:54:46 PM »
True, but it cannot be "chameleon" if the soundstaging is obviously wrong. That's where certain multi-BA expensive IEMs, like SE-5, fail hard.
(This specific one, while adaptable, has also a layered quality due to obvious differences in timbre between gross frequency ranges.)

On the contrary, my equalized modded RE-ZERO reacts far closer to the track than anything I've heard yet, including soundstage, balance, any recording flaws etc.
Yet it still sounds like RE-ZERO, because this IEM imparts a plate reverb quality, which suprisingly doesn't interact badly with anything, as it's relatively subtle. I bet it would mess up the rare true binaural recordings though.

So, what the hell does "chameleon" mean? Is that one a chameleon with stripes or what? Can you grade "chameleonness"? "Chameleonier"? It's ridiculous.
It has the same problem as "wire-with-gain".

Everything has its own sound, more or less subtle. Especially in case of headphones.
(Amps and sources can at times be indistinguishable from each other.)

I forgot to mention: there is "chameleon" as in "reproduces track faithfully" and "chameleon" as in "every track sounds completely different". Note the former is accuracy, the latter is weird. That's perhaps why you're noticing the contradiction. I was talking about both accuracy and weirdness in the same post.
(SE-5 is quite accurate up to and including midrange - except some bass boost, which can mess with soundstaging rarely. However, highs are peaky enough to be annoying and sound different with every track.)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 11:11:19 PM by AstralStorm »
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rhythmdevils

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2013, 11:02:44 PM »
Do you know what a chameleon is? 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chameleon
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Kirosia

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2013, 11:39:03 PM »
I am familiar with the "karma" variant.
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Marvey

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #107 on: January 20, 2013, 03:35:53 AM »
Quote from: donunus on January 19, 2013, 10:10:13 PM
Quote from: Analixus on January 19, 2013, 06:50:22 PM
It has been said that a strong treble edge gives the impression of greater speed or 'PRaT'.  Hence Grados+rock.

Are speed and PRaT really the same? I tend to associate PRaT with fun factor due to a good combination of speed and coherence which gets my toe tappin. I feel that PRaT is also another subjective thing just like musicality. I understand why Purrin calls them BS terms. They are personal and don't really describe anything in specific detail analytically speaking. I like using those terms though when I am enjoying the music more than listening to flaws.

Speed would be a subset of PRaT, which could mean many things.

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Solderdude

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #108 on: January 20, 2013, 08:40:26 AM »
In the end no-one will probably be using another 'vocabulary' other that the one close to their own 'world' and what they are familiar with.

This will always annoy others, Techs will be annoyed with technical terms used 'wrongly', non technical people will likely not fully understand (or interpret wrongly) the technical descriptions, techs won't be able to grasp or misinterpret what is meant with some colourful words e.t.c.

GE does have a 'subjective sound evaluation' as well, but shown in a technical and comparative manner in the form of 'sliders' (below the graphs in a section called 'reviewers opinion' but may not give the total picture to everyone.
 
To really 'understand' some-ones sonic description (perhaps only for the pirates website) would be a list of unmistakeable descriptions AND a short list of familiar music that is easy to obtain AND can show differences.
The list should be easy to find and use (not too long) and descriptions that non-technical people can translate their sentiments to.

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Cristello

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #109 on: January 20, 2013, 08:43:09 AM »
Quote from: Solderdude on January 20, 2013, 08:40:26 AM
To really 'understand' some-ones sonic description (perhaps only for the pirates website) would be a list of unmistakeable descriptions AND a short list of familiar music that is easy to obtain AND can show differences.
The list should be easy to find and use (not too long) and descriptions that non-technical people can translate their sentiments to.
Seconded.  :)p2
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