Topic: Jerg HE500 pads (Read 14408 times)

jerg · « **Reply #50 on:** March 13, 2013, 09:09:26 PM »

Quote from: AstralStorm on March 13, 2013, 05:48:46 PM

It still remains lush and warm tonally, but is now truly diffuse-field equalized. For instance, it's warmer, smoother and better extended in subbass than equalized Paradox. Slightly better at microdetailing too, except in bass. As you can see, I'm actually cutting highs most of the time.
That 8.5kHz notch baffles me as much as the next guy. The difference in tonality amounts to a stronger central focus and slightly wider soundstage as well as removal of the slight nasal tone.

The 1.5k dip is probably the same one as Purrin's 2k dip, except frequency shifted - this is a different pair. It's only ~6 dB.

Generally, with Jergpads and equalized, they remind me of a certain large 2-way DIY monitors, except yet better at bass. (Crossfeed obviously enabled.)

Could you pass along the current state EQ file? I'd like to take it for a spin and see if your equalization works with my ears (at least partially).

AstralStorm · « **Reply #51 on:** March 13, 2013, 10:46:46 PM »

Quote from: LFF on March 13, 2013, 07:49:56 PM

Quote from: AstralStorm on March 13, 2013, 06:25:53 PM
Many sine tones at -6 dBFS straight out of Foobar2000. General loudness is precalibrated to comfortable levels (like a normal talk) by listening to EBU R128 loudness compensated audiobooks and radio talks. (with reference level also set to -6 dBFS instead of default -12 dBFS)
I also use a tone sweep from a VST to find the exact widths of peaks/dips.

Reference is loudness of a 500 Hz sine tone.

Wow. I just use my ears.

Same here, what do you think I measure these with?

I don't own a measurement rig other than the nature's best.
I figured out a linear sounding headphones sound the best and have been time and again convinced of it.

EQ files are attached, but obviously the resonances or the 8.5k peak might not match your HE-500/ears - please adjust as necessary.

The 37 Hz notch is a bone conduction thing - it's the highest for example in my SE-5 CIEM and HE-500 with Jergpads 1+2+4 are also transmitting that very well.
Removal of the 8.5k notch EQ does not change much after the surrounding two peak EQs (7k and 9.25k) are bypassed to compensate, it's that narrow. Slightly changes tonality of cymbals and adds a slight bit of muddiness to the sound.

Velour EQ on Jergpads sounds super flattened and somewhat dry.

I forgot to mention: without a crossfeed the eq sounds very much like a sound line through head in a boundless space, unless you use a binaural recording.

jerg · « **Reply #52 on:** March 13, 2013, 11:14:01 PM »

Quote from: AstralStorm on March 13, 2013, 10:46:46 PM

Quote from: LFF on March 13, 2013, 07:49:56 PM
Quote from: AstralStorm on March 13, 2013, 06:25:53 PM
Many sine tones at -6 dBFS straight out of Foobar2000. General loudness is precalibrated to comfortable levels (like a normal talk) by listening to EBU R128 loudness compensated audiobooks and radio talks. (with reference level also set to -6 dBFS instead of default -12 dBFS)
I also use a tone sweep from a VST to find the exact widths of peaks/dips.

Reference is loudness of a 500 Hz sine tone.

Wow. I just use my ears.

Same here, what do you think I measure these with? I don't own a measurement rig other than the nature's best.
I figured out a linear sounding headphones sound the best and have been time and again convinced of it.

EQ files are attached, but obviously the resonances or the 8.5k peak might not match your HE-500/ears - please adjust as necessary.

The 37 Hz notch is a bone conduction thing - it's the highest for example in my SE-5 CIEM and HE-500 with Jergpads 1+2+4 are also transmitting that very well.
Removal of the 8.5k notch EQ does not change much after the surrounding two peak EQs (7k and 9.25k) are bypassed to compensate, it's that narrow. Slightly changes tonality of cymbals and adds a slight bit of muddiness to the sound.

Velour EQ on Jergpads sounds super flattened and somewhat dry.

Yeah I did some more SineGen sinewave sweeps and indeed my pair has a sharp notch at around 8.2kHz for me (starts at 7.9kHz, rebounds abruptly at 8.5kHz). Could just be result of the natural interaction between the sound waves and our ear canals?

I'll check out your EQ profiles in a bit.

rhythmdevils · « **Reply #53 on:** March 14, 2013, 01:04:35 AM »

you should use music. Sitting around EQ'ing with sine waves is a bit absurd.

Solderdude · « **Reply #54 on:** March 14, 2013, 06:08:32 AM »

Build yourself a measurement rig.

It is not that hard to make nor expensive.
You do have to know how to handle a soldering station.
I plan to write a tutorial with a compensated pre-amp in it for WM61 mics.
To make the amp section all you need is the filter PCB.
I always believed your ears are well suited for the job (figuring out 'flat')... until I built me one...

Also I feel drastic EQ's aren't as good as gentle ones and not every HP reacts well to EQ.
Only HP's that need a nudge are suited for EQ.
The HE500 reacts very well.

But that's just my opinion.

AstralStorm · « **Reply #55 on:** March 14, 2013, 06:32:48 PM »

Quote from: rhythmdevils on March 14, 2013, 01:04:35 AM

you should use music. Sitting around EQ'ing with sine waves is a bit absurd.

Music does not work for fine equalization, but finely equalized headphones work well for all kinds of music.
I do not equalize them to be perceptually flat for sake of flatness, but because music sounds best then.

(Neither does wideband noise. Narrowband noise works, but no better than sines. Tone sweeps work too, but are harder to precisely tune the amount than tones, but make for more accurate peak widths.)

I will build a rig one of these days.

Marvey · « **Reply #56 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:03:53 PM »

I actually use recordings which I know for EQ. I'm past listening to sine waves or narrow band noise.

AstralStorm · « **Reply #57 on:** March 27, 2013, 07:40:01 AM »

Well, I tried that too for a change, but the results were much worse, probably due to narrow peaks not being audible with many recordings, but really tripping up the ones that feature those frequencies prominently.
Even going through a wide variety of tracks and genres, there's always something I haven't checked that will terribly trip up one way or the other - and achieving even an acceptable result on all of them takes way longer. My experiment with RE-400 for example took 60 minutes and was nowhere near as good. Something better behaved like Paradox would be faster than that - but then I ended up with a really watered down variant of a non-diffuse-field eq which still sounded muffled.

A precise equalization with sines (like for Paradox or HE-500) takes me about 45 minutes. A fast semi-precise "starting point" eq takes me 15 minutes.
If I have a reference point (e.g. RE-400 vs formerly equalized RE-ZERO), it takes much shorter, I've equalized RE-400 precisely in 10.

Solderdude · « **Reply #58 on:** March 27, 2013, 08:06:13 AM »

see my 'motto' below

AstralStorm · « **Reply #59 on:** March 27, 2013, 04:36:50 PM »

Oh, but sometimes briefly using ears as analyzer can result in higher enjoyment of music, long time. This is one such case.

Author Topic: Jerg HE500 pads (Read 14408 times)

jerg

Re: Jerg HE500 pads

AstralStorm

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jerg

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rhythmdevils

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Solderdude

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AstralStorm

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Marvey

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AstralStorm

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Solderdude

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AstralStorm

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Author Topic: Jerg HE500 pads (Read 14408 times)